Vintage amps - too much hassle?

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  • brooombrooom Frets: 1170
    Definitely not digital... But if you're going to go the new route, I'd probably look at a @RiftAmps to build you a nice Deluxe Reverb, with the bonus of being a UK based company.

    If you really must go US, then the best replicas of blackface deluxe you can get in my not so humble opinion is going to be a Magic Amps.
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 2723
    terada said:
    ICBM said:
    peteri said:

    My answer is always Carr, loved the Skylark I had (before I went modelling - guitar not a career change ;) )

    Wonderful build quality

    https://www.premierguitar.com/ext/resources/images/content/2014-10/Reviews/Carr-Skylark-Wiring-WEB.jpg

    This is the circuit of the 64 handwired reissue. Any thoughts?



    In particular, I was interested to see what the situation is with regard to the tremolo - and whether it is the digital version. 'the Guitar Magazine' say the following:

    "Fender has obliged by routing both channels through both the reverb and vibrato. To facilitate this, the opto-coupler tremolo circuit has been reconfigured to a Princeton Reverb-style circuit that modulates the bias of the power valves. The channel voicing has also been tweaked to emphasise the difference in tones, with a 50pF ‘bright cap’ providing a tad more sparkle on the second channel."

    Does this mean that it is digital or not?
    It means it's not digital.

    The explanation is nonsence though; they have used bias mod tremolo because the optocoupler are not RoHS compliant!
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  • brooombrooom Frets: 1170
    exactly, marketing bullshit about not being able to ship amps with the roach optocoupler. For better or worse, not only is that a deviation from the original circuit, it also leaves you without the normal (no effects) channel. Which some people do like, as it isn't fed into the reverb circuit and therefore sounds and responds different.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    brooom said:
    exactly, marketing bullshit about not being able to ship amps with the roach optocoupler. For better or worse, not only is that a deviation from the original circuit, it also leaves you without the normal (no effects) channel. Which some people do like, as it isn't fed into the reverb circuit and therefore sounds and responds different.
    They could easily have done bias trem on one of the Vibrato channel preamp valves, like a Vibro Champ. Pretty stupid to change the overall functionality - they haven't changed the panel graphics to reflect it either.

    It would probably be relatively easy to modify it to that, given that it's one of the major advantages of a hard-wired circuit.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • StuartMac290StuartMac290 Frets: 1428
    ICBM said:
    peteri said:

    My answer is always Carr, loved the Skylark I had (before I went modelling - guitar not a career change ;) )

    Wonderful build quality

    https://www.premierguitar.com/ext/resources/images/content/2014-10/Reviews/Carr-Skylark-Wiring-WEB.jpg
    Wow!
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  • gringopiggringopig Frets: 2648
    edited July 2020
    .
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  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 6807
    brooom said:
    Ok, so that's what I'm trying to say. You're assumption is incorrect. Some amps sit for a long time, for no particular reason. The demand just isn't there.

    I've had this particular one for sale, for a some good months now, with not a lot of interest. It is fully original, including speaker, and blue molded coupling caps. The only work done on it has been the electrolytic caps, which should be changed on most old amps.

    It's priced below the 1969 model you just mentioned. But yeah what I wanted to emphasize is that just because something has been for sale for some time, doesn't necessarily mean it's a shit deal.

    Logically, if something doesn't sell while competing products do, then it is over-priced in that market.

    "Ya canna change the laws o' economics", as Scotty almost said....
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  • brooombrooom Frets: 1170
    yes that is exactly what I'm trying to do.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    I have to say I find the amounts of money that some people seem to be willing to throw at ratty old amps quite puzzling.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • maw4neumaw4neu Frets: 549
    My 68 Vox AC30 has given me a number of challenges over the past year . . . I've often thought about selling it and buying a smaller modern hand wired amp . . . The thing is though, it sounds so good :-)  ( at the moment ) Vintage amps can be expensive to keep and are sometimes vulnerable, due to their age, in my humble opinion  . . . I sold my Cornell Romany Plus ( 1x12 ) when Id bought the AC30 and, on balance, the Cornell was the one to keep . . . Another one that got away :-( 
    Id just like to point out that, despite all the video and DNA evidence, it genuinely wasn't me, your Honour  ! 

    Feedback : https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/58125/
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  • randersonranderson Frets: 187
    brooom said:
    Definitely not digital... But if you're going to go the new route, I'd probably look at a @RiftAmps to build you a nice Deluxe Reverb, with the bonus of being a UK based company.

    If you really must go US, then the best replicas of blackface deluxe you can get in my not so humble opinion is going to be a Magic Amps.
    Not wishing to derail the thread but I'm Interested in this re. Magic Amps. I have heard great things about their Vox replicas (I know you have one for sale which is I'm gutted about as I've just bought my dream 335 so have zero funds at present) but the Fenders are just as good? I was all in for a Lazy J..

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  • LebarqueLebarque Frets: 3755
    Maybe it's just me, but I always feel like I'm waiting for something to go wrong on a vintage amp, whereas I have more confidence in a well-built, recently-made amp.
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  • randersonranderson Frets: 187
    Lebarque said:
    Maybe it's just me, but I always feel like I'm waiting for something to go wrong on a vintage amp, whereas I have more confidence in a well-built, recently-made amp.
    So I just had my 60's AC30 serviced by a reputable amp guy just last week. Used it for a first rehearsal with a new band on the Sunday fine, fired it up today and some god awful squealing occurs immediately. Turn it off and on a few times and it eventually goes away.

    My point is, as good an amp as it is, it would be pretty embarrassing having this happen to you in a pro band with players you'd never met before. It doesn't really reflect well on you if you know I mean. Got me thinking whether it is worth the hassle as you rightly say.
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  • brooombrooom Frets: 1170
    randerson said:
    brooom said:
    Definitely not digital... But if you're going to go the new route, I'd probably look at a @RiftAmps to build you a nice Deluxe Reverb, with the bonus of being a UK based company.

    If you really must go US, then the best replicas of blackface deluxe you can get in my not so humble opinion is going to be a Magic Amps.
    Not wishing to derail the thread but I'm Interested in this re. Magic Amps. I have heard great things about their Vox replicas (I know you have one for sale which is I'm gutted about as I've just bought my dream 335 so have zero funds at present) but the Fenders are just as good? I was all in for a Lazy J..

    Hi,

    I also have a vibro prince and a tweed deluxe. And yes they are just as good as the vox version. Although I'm selling at the moment I might just end up keeping it.

    Mike Moody from Magic, puts a lot of effort into recreating small details from these circuits, that go by unnoticed to a lot of builders. I can go into details about what some of these efforts if you want. But basically I can tell you his amps are a really good representation of real old amps. Is service support is phenomenal. I've owned and still do own old amps and his are the closest match I've been able to find.
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  • brooombrooom Frets: 1170
    ICBM said:
    brooom said:
    exactly, marketing bullshit about not being able to ship amps with the roach optocoupler. For better or worse, not only is that a deviation from the original circuit, it also leaves you without the normal (no effects) channel. Which some people do like, as it isn't fed into the reverb circuit and therefore sounds and responds different.
    They could easily have done bias trem on one of the Vibrato channel preamp valves, like a Vibro Champ. Pretty stupid to change the overall functionality - they haven't changed the panel graphics to reflect it either.

    It would probably be relatively easy to modify it to that, given that it's one of the major advantages of a hard-wired circuit.
    I completely agree. If they're going to offer an amp that is not true to the old specs, don't call it a 64 deluxe reverb. The vibro champ tremolo idea, would be extremely cool as it is one of the best sounding tremolos ever in my opinion.
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  • brooom said:
    Ok, so that's what I'm trying to say. You're assumption is incorrect. Some amps sit for a long time, for no particular reason. The demand just isn't there.

    I've had this particular one for sale, for a some good months now, with not a lot of interest. It is fully original, including speaker, and blue molded coupling caps. The only work done on it has been the electrolytic caps, which should be changed on most old amps.

    It's priced below the 1969 model you just mentioned. But yeah what I wanted to emphasize is that just because something has been for sale for some time, doesn't necessarily mean it's a shit deal.

    From my experience of both collectable amps and cars I'd say @strat84 assumption is absolutely correct. When I've over priced them they sit and don't sell. When I price them reasonably they sell...go figure? 
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  • teradaterada Frets: 5113
    A quick update:

    Today I ABC'd a 65 ddri, a 65 prri and a 64 handwired custom deluxe, which was interesting.

    The 64 completely outshone the 65 deluxe, sounding much more articulate and with more complexed harmonics. It was much brighter too, but that could have been the new speaker that needed a bit of use.

    The 64 was much noisier at idle though, which was surprising. It had a fair bit of both hiss with nothing plugged in, and hum on the reverb. Nothing that would be heard at rehearsal/gig volume, but would be noticeable at home volumes.

    The 65 sounded great, but more muffled than the 64, was heavier to lift, but was near silent apart from the trem which was quite ticky.

    The Princeton however was splendid, it had the brighter and more articular nature of the 64, but could have done with a bit more bass in my opinion. Was completely silent too and had much more usable volumes for home use.

    All great amps, I couldn't make a decision at the time so have a lot of thinking to do. At the moment though I'm leaning towards saving heaps of cash and just going for the Princeton!
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  • richardhomerrichardhomer Frets: 24793
    edited June 2018
    terada said:
    All great amps, I couldn't make a decision at the time so have a lot of thinking to do. At the moment though I'm leaning towards saving heaps of cash and just going for the Princeton!
    I’ve not played a 64 - but when I compared the Deluxe to the Princeton I preferred the PRRI by some margin. The price of a new one is ridiculous for a 12w, mass-produced amp though. I’d definitely try to find a used one.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    terada said:

    The Princeton however was splendid, it had the brighter and more articular nature of the 64, but could have done with a bit more bass in my opinion.
    A speaker change will fix that. The Eminence Ragin’ Cajun is the most popular for beefing them up, if you don’t want to replace the baffle and fit a 12.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • rexterrexter Frets: 369
    edited June 2018 tFB Trader
    I'm definitely no amp expert but I do tend to gravitate towards buying vintage amps. From having spoken to techs over time it sounds like they're actually easier to fix than modern amps with PCBs and hard to access innards. Since I took my Bandmaster Reverb to Dave (Classic Valve Amps) it's impeccable and never had a whiff of trouble from my old Vibro Champ. A bit of a service every couple of years and you should be fine. And if thinking in terms of resale it's a better investment than buying a new amp. 

    The amp I use most often, however, is a recent handwired BF Princeton Reverb clone with a 12" WGS (again sorted by Dave!) that is just a fantastic amp. Still needs servicing like a vintage amp every once in a while.

    Agree though, there are a lot of nice new amps on the market these days. My needs are sated though so I don't want to think about them and trigger any GAS obsessions!

    Edit afterthought: --- and... thinking back - I did a few large venue tours using the Bandmaster Reverb - I had I recapped and blackfaced by JPF amps (picked it up dirt cheap with a blonde Tremolux cab in 2011) and never an issue with reliability, despite it being treaded fairly hard.
    Custom colours, vintage restorations, high end guitar finishing
    www.rexterguitars.co.uk
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