Eating crap days

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  • 57Deluxe57Deluxe Frets: 7329
    <Vintage BOSS Upgrades>
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27574
    So what part of what I posted is untrue? 
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27574
    Right. Watched it. Utter bollocks intended to shock the uneducated.

    The claim I responded to was "effect on the body is same as up to 12 teaspoons of sugar". That is not the claim made in the programme clip posted, for starters; the programme says a bagel has the equivalent of 11 cubes of sugar.

    This is clearly nonsense; you can easily look up the sugar content of a bagel. The New York Bagel Co ones (I think they're a reasonable example to take) have 5g of sugar, which is about 1.8 sugar cubes. The programme claims 11. Presumably they're using "equivalent to" to mean "a tenth of"? Or maybe they're saying that all carbohydrates are sugar? Well, that's not true. Or that they all have the same effect on blood sugar maybe? Nope. That's not true either. Any way you look at it their sums are off (a plain bagel has 42g of carbohydrate, which is the same weight as 14 sugar cubes, but only 5g is actually sugar). So my statement that the programme was poorly researched stands proven.

    Interestingly they also claim that the bagel has more "equivalent sugar" than the muffin. A quick search reveals that a Tesco double chocolate muffin (again, I think that's probably reasonable representative of the type) has 50g of carbohydrates, of which 23g are sugars. So, again, what do they mean by "equivalent"? Something with more overall carbs and more overall sugar has less "equivalent" sugar? Fucking bollocks. Utter fucking bollocks.

    So the claim that the "effect on the body is same as up to 12 teaspoons of sugar" is both untrue and not backed up by the clip, and the clip itself is not internally self-consistent.

    If anyone thinks that 12 teaspoons of sugar contains measurable protein or dietary fibre, they are unfit to post about nutrition - but a bagel provably contains both.

    Still waiting for you to point out where I was wrong, @Emp_Fab - if you're going to make a snide little dig like that you'd better be able to back it up, or have the basic decency to apologise when it's demonstrated that you're wrong.

    So, Emp... what's it to be?
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • PC_DavePC_Dave Frets: 3396
    *runs and grabs sugar free popcorn for this one*
    This week's procrastination forum might be moved to sometime next week.
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16253
    PC_Dave said:
    *runs and grabs sugar free popcorn for this one*
    How many carbs in that popcorn though? 
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • PC_DavePC_Dave Frets: 3396
    PC_Dave said:
    *runs and grabs sugar free popcorn for this one*
    How many carbs in that popcorn though? 
    I missed the TV programme so I’ve no idea... as much as an African Elephant?
    This week's procrastination forum might be moved to sometime next week.
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  • Philly_QPhilly_Q Frets: 22516
    PC_Dave said:
    PC_Dave said:
    *runs and grabs sugar free popcorn for this one*
    How many carbs in that popcorn though? 
    I missed the TV programme so I’ve no idea... as much as an African Elephant?
    Actually a lot more than an African elephant.  Unless you include the contents of his stomach...
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26749
    skunkwerx said:
    skunkwerx said:
    My nutritionist at Guys & St Thomas was pretty clued up on what I needed, Fodmap’s, Coeliac etc. 
    Edited... shes a dietician not a nutritionalist. Lols. Im not qualified here...
    :D 
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • FuengiFuengi Frets: 2849
    Bagels - although I have no particular wish to jump into this discussion  :o I recently listened to a nutrition podcast where they said bagels were about the worst thing you can eat. 

    My understanding is that carbohydrates, if it unused as fuel, are converted to glycogen in the body exactly as sugar is. 
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 12314
    Emp_Fab said:
    Gall bladder, not stomach.  I'm waiting on a second ultrasound scan and have an outpatient appt on the 11th July.  I don't go off the rails often...  Just today I had this craving for junk.  I'll be good tomorrow...
    Pork pies still won’t do your gall bladder any favours mate, high fat content. Glad to hear you don’t cane it very often.  ;)
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16253
    Fuengi said:
    Bagels - although I have no particular wish to jump into this discussion  :o I recently listened to a nutrition podcast where they said bagels were about the worst thing you can eat. 

    My understanding is that carbohydrates, if it unused as fuel, are converted to glycogen in the body exactly as sugar is. 
    Bagels are the work of the devil, I'm sticking to donuts to start the day.

    I think ( I'm very non scientific on this stuff) all carbs are broken down by the body into blood sugar and the complexity of the carb determines how quickly that is. So, for example, white bread is effectively very similar to eating sugar in terms of how the body uses the energy  whereas wholemeal bread takes longer to break down and therefore it's slower energy release. From the bit I saw of the TV programme referenced it roughly divided carbs into white, beige and brown. The darker a carb the better it is for you ( I don't think chocolate muffins count though). There are also some odd anomalies like white bread being toasted or white pasta being reheated being more complex than in their original form. A baked potato is high in the glycemic index ( so your body turns into sugar type energy very quickly) but has other health benefits. 
    Hence all the equivalency stuff, the accuracy of which I have no idea.

    I am fat and unfit so clearly have crap food days. What I find with very crap food days ( say a takeaway pizza) is that I get a kind of hangover - the next day I feel rough, maybe shakey and craving food. Obviously there's a potential vicious cycle there. 
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 3299
    yeah I dont get how they are coming up with the equivalency formulas

    Carbohydrates ( in all forms) are not stored as body fat as efficiently as dietary fats are, they play an essential role in muscle growth but also overall body functions.  Monosaccharides ( simple carbs) to Polsaccharides ( complex carbs) are all either metabolised into glucose or are left as indigested serving as dietary fibre.

    Id argue the simple sugars ( that require little to none digestion/ conversion) in a muffin to be worse for you than those in  a bagel.

    theres a tonne of abstract surfing going on when people talk about the research of low carb diets etc , the problem with the abstracts most people quote is that they fail to mention that test subjects on the low carb test diets all contained significantly more protein that those on the low fat diets they are compairing, its a mindfield out there of half truths and agendas!
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27574
    edited June 2018
    Fuengi said:
    Bagels - although I have no particular wish to jump into this discussion  o I recently listened to a nutrition podcast where they said bagels were about the worst thing you can eat. 

    I think that's a bit of an overstatement, but I'd agree that they're similar in composition to white bread or pasta, so one's consumption of then should be sensible/limited. 

    I note that @Emp_Fab hasn't yet summoned up the basic good manners to admit that he was wrong (as usual).

    What's up, Emp? I'm sure we'd all have more respect for you if you had the integrity to admit when you've said something stupid. Again. 
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • jonnyburgojonnyburgo Frets: 12253
    Emp will answer the question after his pie, which he says is the best pie he’s eaten all day.
    "OUR TOSSPOT"
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  • pintspillerpintspiller Frets: 994
    I eat shit every day
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  • LestratcasterLestratcaster Frets: 1079
    Normally eat quite well, stick to chicken and fish most days and loads of fruit n veg, about 7-8 a day. 3 for breakfast (banana, strawberry and kiwi), grapes at lunch, then a green (cucumber/lettuce, etc) evening meal and an apple and orange. No fizzy drinks or biscuits in my diet either, and try to stay away from processed stuff. Can be impartial to a bag of crisps every now and then, and some junk food, unavoidable if on the road with bands. How the hell do these touring bands eat healthy?
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24209
    Sporky said:
    Right. Watched it. Utter bollocks intended to shock the uneducated.

    <bizarre frothy-mouthed rant exhibiting jaw dropping arrogance>

    So, Emp... what's it to be?
    I was merely giving you enough time to hoist yourself from your own petard, and you haven’t failed me.

    I was only suggesting that you may not be the voice of authority on a programme about nutrition.  The bottom line is that either you are right - a man who isn’t a dietician or a doctor, but is a tech bod in the AV world - slagging off the claims made by a dietician and a doctor in the programme, or they are right.

    The dietician is Alison Barnes;

    Diabetes Specialist Dietitian

    Newcastle University/Newcastle Hospitals NHS Trust

    Alison Barnes is a Registered Dietitian with a particular interest in diabetes and weight management. She has a first class undergraduate degree in Human Nutrition from Northumbria University and a Postgraduate Diploma in Dietetics from Leeds Metropolitan University. She currently works as a Research Associate with Professor Roy Taylor at Newcastle University on the Diabetes UK-funded DiRECT clinical trial, using low calorie liquid diets to achieve weight loss and diabetes remission in a primary care setting. Alison has an honorary contract as a diabetes dietitian with Newcastle Hospitals NHS Trust and has previously worked as an NHS specialist diabetes dietitian for Northumbria Healthcare NHS Trust (2009-2014), providing regular clinics in primary care and specialist clinics and diabetes group education in secondary care. She has also worked on group weight management programmes for both adults and families in community settings. Alison was  selected as one of the Diabetes UK Clinical Champions for 2016-18 and is working on a project to produce a dietary decision aid for type 2 diabetes in order to facilitate more effective discussions about diet between healthcare professionals and people living with diabetes.


    The doctor is Dr Xand van Tulleken, a doctor with a medical degree from Oxford University and a Fullbright Scholar with a Masters In Public Health from Harvard University.  He is the Helen Hamlyn Senior Fellow at Fordham University's Institute of International Humanitarian Affairs.  He also has a diploma in Tropical Medicine, International Humanitarian Assistance.  As well as being a contributing editor to the Oxford Handbook of Humanitarian Medicine, he also works on philanthropic projects alongside the World Health Organisation.

    Now, forgive me for challenging your medical knowledge, but I’ll give a bit more credence to the clinical opinions of these two than a man who installs AV gear for a living.
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • PC_DavePC_Dave Frets: 3396
    Well, I’m a bit disappointed I’ve run out of popcorn, but I’m pleased we’re back on. 
    This week's procrastination forum might be moved to sometime next week.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27574
    Emp_Fab said:

    I was only suggesting that you may not be the voice of authority on a programme about nutrition.  The bottom line is that either you are right - [childish ad-hominem removed] - slagging off the claims made by a dietician and a doctor in the programme, or they are 
    Indeed. So show me where what I posted is incorrect. 

    And hold off on the personal attacks and incorrect descriptions of what I do for a living, both make you look silly.

    So far all you've posted is ad-hominem and arguments from authority. I, on the other hand, have posted verifiable facts. Point out where I was wrong, if you can - you can check all the numbers very easily. 
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • As usual, both views are sort of correct.
    My lunchtime wholemeal bagel has 38.7g of carbohydrate @ 4 calories per gram, which is 155 calories which is equivalent to 13 sugar cubes (that well known unit of measurement)
    However, the consumption of my bagel and the effect it has on my body is nothing like consuming 13 sugar cubes.
    Sometimes when over-simplifying things for a broad audience you leave yourself open to criticism? 
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