Forgiving & Unforgiving Amps

What's Hot
2

Comments

  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71958
    impmann said:

    So basically a 'forgiving' amp makes a slightly crappy player sound better than they actually are (ie it hides sloppy technique) - is that what we are saying?
    Yes, if you want to put it like that :). But that can be a good thing, because it allows you to concentrate on other aspects of sounding good.

    ToneControl said:

    or that a forgiving amp conceals the extra expression in the playing of someone who has refined their touch and dynamics?
    Not really. A forgiving amp can be very expressive too - you just need to play it differently.

    The funny thing is that some people like to say they like unforgiving amps as if it's some sort of badge of honour, but give them a *really* unforgiving amp and they're more likely to say it doesn't sound very good...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • meltedbuzzboxmeltedbuzzbox Frets: 10337
    fuck my life... what a load of bollocks
    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
    1reaction image LOL 1reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71958
    fuck my life... what a load of bollocks
    No worse than Telecasters, which are always being held up as 'unforgiving'.

    Which must explain why so many indie bands use them...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    2reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • meltedbuzzboxmeltedbuzzbox Frets: 10337
    ICBM said:
    fuck my life... what a load of bollocks
    No worse than Telecasters, which are always being held up as 'unforgiving'.

    Which must explain why so many indie bands use them...
    I've never seen that spouted to be honest but I can believe it...

    Im just off to the fx section to post about a forgiving Big muff
    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
    1reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12645
    ICBM said:
    fuck my life... what a load of bollocks
    No worse than Telecasters, which are always being held up as 'unforgiving'.

    Which must explain why so many indie bands use them...
    By whom?

    I don't... and I've played a Tele most of my adult life. Genuinely, I've not encountered this term before... and I think I concur with Mr Buzzbox.
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71958
    impmann said:

    By whom?
    By a lot of 'proper' Tele players, if you read some of the US forums. The whole 'unforgiving', 'nowhere to hide', 'sorts the men from the boys' kind of thing... total bollocks.

    Just to be clear, although I understand what people mean by 'unforgiving' regarding amps, it's not something I'm ever bothered by. I can generally sound equally bad through anything :).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • HaychHaych Frets: 5595
    The most unforgiving amp I played was my old Peavey Duel 212.  The lead channel was ok, and in fact sounded very, very good, I'd almost say it was the best crunch sound I've ever had.

    The clean channel, though, was way too bold for my liking.  It didn't sound like a valve amp clean, if that makes any sense and I couldn't get the sound I wanted from it so it had to go.  Pity really because the lead/crunch channel was awesome.

    But while we're on the topic of forgiving and unforgiving; if one wants to play their best then surely playing an unforgiving amp is the way to go?  If a forgiving amp hides all the faux pas in your playing then it's logical to conclude that playing through an unforgiving amp should make you a better player, no?

    There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

    Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

    Bit of trading feedback here.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11789
    ICBM said:

    ToneControl said:

    or that a forgiving amp conceals the extra expression in the playing of someone who has refined their touch and dynamics?
    Not really. A forgiving amp can be very expressive too - you just need to play it differently.

    The funny thing is that some people like to say they like unforgiving amps as if it's some sort of badge of honour, but give them a *really* unforgiving amp and they're more likely to say it doesn't sound very good...
    I agree that a forgiving amp can also be very expressive, even a massively OD'd amp can. It's a different skill though.

    I'm meaning that the subtleties you get with someone playing with a touch closer to acoustic playing will not be heard as well on what I'd call a "forgiving amp"
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71958
    ToneControl said:

    I agree that a forgiving amp can also be very expressive, even a massively OD'd amp can. It's a different skill though.

    I'm meaning that the subtleties you get with someone playing with a touch closer to acoustic playing will not be heard as well on what I'd call a "forgiving amp"
    That's true. It's one of the reasons I tend to like amps that some people think of as 'unforgiving' - big clean amps and solid-state - although it's not so much about subtlety, for me it's the ability to bash the guitar like you would an acoustic and not have it clip or mush out, but respond the same way as you play so you don't have to learn a new set of dynamics.

    But I detest some other other amps that are sometimes called unforgiving, especially those with strident over-pronounced midrange. I suspect I'm in something of a minority though.

    I suppose in the end it's whether the amp responds the way you expect it to so it becomes easy to play.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • randersonranderson Frets: 187

    Forgiving means that you don't have to be as precise in your playing, because the amp has a naturally rich, usually slightly compressed sound which smooths out as you play harder and especially when it goes into overdrive.

    Unforgiving means it has a clear, uncompressed sound with dynamics that directly follow the picking strength and which usually sounds harsh when you push it into overdrive, so if you don't play carefully the errors really jump out.

    At least, that's what it means to me.

    ^^^^ That's a great explanation and that's how I understood the difference. Though tbh I felt the other day, like the AC30 fell in the second camp except that of course it's not harsh in the overdrive. I agree that a solid state is more unforgiving but an  'uncompressed sound with dynamics that directly follow the picking strength' was what I 'felt' I was experiencing with the Vox.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • olafgartenolafgarten Frets: 1648
    I've played through some amps which would be called Unforgiving, but I think it's a myth, I sound equally crap through all of them.

    I don't think it is the amps which are unforgiving, but mainly the way they are set, if they are clean and have a lot of compression, you can hear quieter sounds like finger noise more easily, but that also allows more expression as you can reproduce more sounds.

    I could be wrong as some amps are inherently more compressed, but with a compressor and a noise gate, you can make unforgiving amps forgiving and vice versa.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • maw4neumaw4neu Frets: 549
    edited June 2018
    randerson said:

    Interested in what others would deem forgiving amps or am I wrong about AC30s completely and just p*ss poor at playing these days?!


    I'd just like to point out for the record " I am piss poor " :-) plus I own an AC30
    Id just like to point out that, despite all the video and DNA evidence, it genuinely wasn't me, your Honour  ! 

    Feedback : https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/58125/
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • slackerslacker Frets: 2216
    My AC15TBX was very unforgiving, if you looked at it wrong it would blow a power transformer. 

    Regardless  of what it's called, I want an amp that sounds good with the controls at noon, with any pedal and any guitar. For me it's a Bad Cat/Matchless/Vox type amp. 

    The old Marshalls at Water Rats were great, plugged in and played. 

    After 15 mins with a Boogie or Fender HRD I'm ready to apply lighter fluid. 


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Matt_McGMatt_McG Frets: 321
    I played a Laney Lionheart 5watt a while back, and found it definitely more unforgiving than the amp I was playing at the time (which was solid state, ironically). Handling noise was much more present, the attack on the note was very immediate, and the dynamics were very 'lively' which meant I had to be much more careful not to over-pick, or mis-articulate.

    That was with the amp set quite load, and on the edge of breakup, I expect I could have found settings that were less hard to work with, but I loved the sound of it as was.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • pintspillerpintspiller Frets: 994
    I think very generally EL84 and 6V6 amps tend to be the most forgiving amps to play.
    Maybe that's why I really got on great with the AOR30 (6V6). Possibly moreso than my Sound City 50+ (EL34). As much as I like the sag in my Superleague (EL34) it's still only third in my list.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • John_PJohn_P Frets: 2744
    Makes sense to me - sometimes a stiffer sounding less compressed amp is great and for some playing a little more compression and spongy sag is better.    For me it’s when I play my twin without having it really cranked up - say below midway on the volume and it feels very direct - great for allowing expressive touch but harder to make it sing - the right drive pedal can help.   Whereas play through a Marshall it has a little more give and compression - it feels more forgiving and suits legato and sustaining lines more - for my playing and the sounds I like.  
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    slacker said:
    Regardless  of what it's called, I want an amp that sounds good with the controls at noon,

    Why? 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • 57Deluxe57Deluxe Frets: 7329
    fussy amp? Just slap a TS pedal in front.
    <Vintage BOSS Upgrades>
    __________________________________
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • TTBZTTBZ Frets: 2873
    I always felt like my Laney GH50L was really unforgiving. It was just stiff to play and felt "sticky" - not much compression I guess. It felt better with a tubescreamer boosting it. In comparison almost every Marshall I've used has felt really fluid and effortless to play despite using much less gain and without a boost. Way more fun. Not sure why that is. Personally I don't know why anyone would rather have an unforgiving amp that's not as fun to play.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    fuck my life... what a load of bollocks
    My thought too ;)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.