Recording Bass getting a good sound

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    blobb said:
    ...although, OP already has a bass and an interface and guitar rig player is free with a couple of bass pre-sets. Shit speakers are shit speakers though no matter how you look at it.
    That’s quite true..
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    Bass is pretty much the easiest instrument to record, which is good news.

    Unlike guitar, the sound coming down the jack cable is pretty much fine, which means that the tone really does come down to the sound of the bass, and the way you play it. Plugged into a decent D.I. input with a suitable input impedance and enough headroom, you'll capture the sound of the instrument. Anything beyond that comes down to taste.

    When I'm working with a DI recording, I'll usually EQ it similarly to what an amp would do - broadly speaking, roll a low pass filter around anywhere from 3-6k depending on what you hear, tidy up some swimmy, tubby midrange around 300 hz and find a little meat down below 150 to boost a couple of DBs. Then compress it to even things out. Again, it just comes down to taste. Slow attack, release slow for rolling basslines and faster for more aggressive stabby playing. 3-5dB at 3:1 ratio is a good starting point.

    From there, it should basically sound like a bassline and you can move on. Often, a bit of saturation or overdrive can help once other things start going on the track that obscure the midrange of the bass (counterintuitively, bass is still a midrange instrument - how it sits alongside vocals and guitars etc totally defines it.) How you overdrive things is totally down to what you have at your disposal - there's a million ways to do it!
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  • barrydbarryd Frets: 25
    edited June 2018
    Wow thanks!  A lot of that especially the last bit Cirrus has wooshed over my head.  However I get the impression I am thinking with my lead guitar head on. I told you I didnt know what I Was doing.  Useful info FunkFingers (I missed your post) about the speakers and using reverb etc.  Ill scratch using the 2:1s, I dont normally use them anyway, they are on a different PC.

    I think I have a copy of Guitar Rig somewhere, never used it though.

    Just to re-iterate though what I do is record in Audacity.  I just want to get the best sound possible for recording purposes.  Its only for home stuff and messing about on youtube for my mates to laugh at although Ive written 18 songs in the past year or so. Most of them complete shit of course but I am starting to take it more seriously.

    Cirrus.  I understand some of what your saying but its all a bit technical. Most of the stuff you talk about such as low pass filters frequencies etc I have seen in Audacity but not really sure what they do or how to work with them.

    I think I am getting closer to achieve the sound I want though.  It was much better when I put it through the amp so maybe that little Pre amp box might just do the trick.

    I am very interested in finding out more about frequencies and filters though as I have found my trial and error stuff clashes.  I dont play with backing tracks much anymore so might put down a track with Vocals, acoustic guitar, lead and Rhythm guitar and Bass now and the other day even a keyboard (although I really cant play that) and sometimes it sounds like a big muddy mess.  Ive just worked it out by using the equaliser in Audacity to knock off the lower end or boost mid range on an instrument etc but its complete guess work and trial and error.  It seems like a black art. Who Knew?     All good fun though. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    barryd said:

    It was much better when I put it through the amp so maybe that little Pre amp box might just do the trick.
    Have you tried just connecting the amp to the audio interface?

    The amp is effectively a preamp if you're not using the speaker.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • blobbblobb Frets: 2914
    Go download Reaper.
    Feelin' Reelin' & Squeelin'
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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1591

    Reaper is great but not everybody gets on with it. Download the 30 day trial of Magix Samplitude ProX 3. If you DO get on with it you can get the free Samplitude Pro X Silver. Limited to 8 tracks but can run plugins etc.

    BTW, Son informs me "they" have just bought a Jazz Bass. Anything dad needs to be prepared for?

    Dave.

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  • blobbblobb Frets: 2914
    ecc83 said:

    BTW, Son informs me "they" have just bought a Jazz Bass. Anything dad needs to be prepared for?

    laid back attitude to life? Black polo neck jumpers? Pointy beards? It's all downhill from now on ......
    Feelin' Reelin' & Squeelin'
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  • pintspillerpintspiller Frets: 994
    Our first demo was done on 16 track and the engineer had me go via DI into the desk. It sounded shit and lifeless. It was what he'd always done.

    Our second demo was in the same place with a different engineer. I convinced him to let me use an amp (my AOR30) and a line-out from that went I to the DI into the desk. It sounds so much better.
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  • barrydbarryd Frets: 25
    ICBM said:
    barryd said:

    It was much better when I put it through the amp so maybe that little Pre amp box might just do the trick.
    Have you tried just connecting the amp to the audio interface?

    The amp is effectively a preamp if you're not using the speaker.
    Yes, thats what I tried a few posts back and it got the right sound.  The only issue is there is a lot of hiss going through the amp into the M Audio interface or into the G3 pedal (the G3 is also a USB Interface).  I can live with that though as I Can just remove the hiss.

    As regards Reaper, I have heard about it and it sounds great but to be honest ive spent a couple of years getting my head around Audacity and for what Im doing for now its ok.  I do actually have Cubase LE on this laptop which I Got with the M Audio interface but ive not played with it yet.

    Im pretty technical to be honest as I work (Well I am semi retired) in IT but its the last thing I want to fart about with when it comes to music as its all about having fun, drinking and making a din.  :#
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    Our first demo was done on 16 track and the engineer had me go via DI into the desk. It sounded shit and lifeless. It was what he'd always done.

    Our second demo was in the same place with a different engineer. I convinced him to let me use an amp (my AOR30) and a line-out from that went I to the DI into the desk. It sounds so much better.
    The trick when you record DI is that you go on to make it sound good, which I guess is the trick no matter how you're going about it. Sounds like your first guy forgot that bit.

    Despite my advocating DI as a fair option, my favourite bass sound = Ampeg SVT into an Ampeg 1x15 cab for rock, hard rock, anything short of metal or funk where the speed of a 4x10 is preferable. The 1x15 slows down those transients, thickens up the sound... love it.

    But you need to have the ability to play bass through a loud amp, a room that isn't lumpy in the bass end and a good mic to pick it all up.
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14324
    barryd said:
    there is a lot of hiss going through the amp into the M Audio interface or into the G3 pedal (the G3 is also a USB Interface).  I can live with that though as I can just remove the hiss.
    The dual J style pickups in the Peavey bass guitar should be constructed such that, when both of them are at full volume, the majority of hum and radio frequency interference is cancelled. 

    The next test is just the cable into the input of your chosen interface box(es). Expect a steady hum. Generous helpings of hiss suggest either lashings of gain and compression raising the noise floor or shite cables.

    Cirrus said:
    The trick when you record DI is that you go on to make it sound good ... Sounds like your first guy forgot that bit.
    Sounds as if the first engineer literally plugged the bass guitar into the mixing console but applied no outboard compression. In the digital recording age, there is no tape saturation or head bump contributing to the overall dynamics.


    Be seeing you.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    barryd said:
    there is a lot of hiss going through the amp into the M Audio interface or into the G3 pedal (the G3 is also a USB Interface).  I can live with that though as I can just remove the hiss.
    The dual J style pickups in the Peavey bass guitar should be constructed such that, when both of them are at full volume, the majority of hum and radio frequency interference is cancelled. 

    The next test is just the cable into the input of your chosen interface box(es). Expect a steady hum. Generous helpings of hiss suggest either lashings of gain and compression raising the noise floor or shite cables.
    It could simply be that the amp is hissy - since it doesn't have a tweeter, that will be naturally rolled off when going through its own speaker so you won't hear it, but if the headphone output is not speaker-emulated then the hiss will come out through that. So you either need to apply speaker emulation in the recording software or just cut off the high treble.

    A partial solution may be to run the amp louder than you would normally - assuming it doesn't distort or overload the audio interface - since that should increase the signal to noise ratio. It won't do any harm to the amp.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • barrydbarryd Frets: 25
    edited June 2018
    Cheap cables for sure Im afraid. Im just cheap aint I?  o

    Not played around that much with the pickup volume controls to be honest.  I cant really figure out which is the best setting for them but thats worth a bit more exploration.  I have to have the Amp volume pretty low when playing through either interface otherwise it blows it right into the red even with the gain right down if using the M Audio Interface.  The G3 is not as easy to control anyway.

    I think its ok though.  I was messing about last night and trying to come up with a track that was Bass dominated and it sounds alright.  Well to me it does. I ended up making it into a song and recorded it.  I dunno if I Dare post the results on here though,  
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14324
    The signal from the amplifier Line Out or Headphone socket will be at line level. The Instrument input on your M Audio box will be expecting an instrument level signal. Thus, there is definitely a signal level mismatch and, possibly, one gain stage too many.

    The signal level mismatch can be corrected either by using the Signal Pad attenuation in the M Audio box or by feeding the signal between the amp and interface on a 1/4" jack to Phono (or XLR) cable.



    On the Zoom G3, it may help to make a few edits in the Global Settings menus.
    • Lower the Recording Level parameter.
    • Reset the Connected Equipment output to Direct. 
    • If those fail, the Master Level is the last resort. 
    Be seeing you.
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  • barrydbarryd Frets: 25
    Thanks Funkfingers.  Actually I might have a 1/4" to XLR cable I could try.  Ill have a look and try that first.  Its not too bad really as I Can remove the hiss in Audacity to some extent. Its good enough for the crap I record I suppose. 
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  • barrydbarryd Frets: 25
    Ive bought one of those Behringer V-tone Bass Pre-amps off ebay. £16.  If its any good I guess I Can dump the Fender Rumble as I wont ever use it I guess.  Its a cracking little amp though.  Could be useful if I ever play a gig in a Hobbit house I suppose. Will report back on my findings.
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 2393
    Cirrus said:
    Bass is pretty much the easiest instrument to record, which is good news.

    The bass is nearly always the most problematic instrument on the sessions I get sent to mix. I think that's partly because very few people can actually play it really well, and there is only so much you can do with compression and EQ to even out a badly played bass line. But it's also because people often don't have a clear idea in mind of what they want the bass to sound like, or how it's going to fit in with the rest of the instruments. Either they DI in haste and you end up with a thin buzzy sound that needs loads of work, or they record an incredibly subby speaker with a D112 and produce nothing but 50Hz sludge.


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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14324
    Stuckfast said:
    people often don't have a clear idea in mind of what they want the bass to sound like
    Very often, the bassist in a group only has the one instrument. The (entirely reasonable, if simplistic) expectation is that it will sound like what it is. i.e. Precision, Jazz, 'Ray, RIC, thing with humbuckers and active EQ. 

    Stuckfast said:
    how it's going to fit in with the rest of the instruments.
    Here, I entirely agree with you. "It's just da bass, innit?"
    Be seeing you.
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    Stuckfast said:
    Cirrus said:
    Bass is pretty much the easiest instrument to record, which is good news.

    The bass is nearly always the most problematic instrument on the sessions I get sent to mix. I think that's partly because very few people can actually play it really well, and there is only so much you can do with compression and EQ to even out a badly played bass line. But it's also because people often don't have a clear idea in mind of what they want the bass to sound like, or how it's going to fit in with the rest of the instruments. Either they DI in haste and you end up with a thin buzzy sound that needs loads of work, or they record an incredibly subby speaker with a D112 and produce nothing but 50Hz sludge.


    Eh, fair enough. I can't imagine those kinds of people, who upon being presented with an open goal totally and immediately fuck up, doing a much better job of recording a drum kit...
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 2393
    Well, a lot of people aren't recording drum kits, they're finding new ways to make programmed ones sound strange... but at least if you are presented with a terrible drum kit recording you can replace the kick and snare with samples.
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