Guitar tutors - any of you have old students?

Lestratcaster · June 2018

octatonic said:

There are a few different types of older student (in no way a comprehensive list) that I have experienced:

You have the 'student who has no time'- their family and job get in the way of their practice and they end up coming for a bit and then quit.

You have the 'used to be pretty good but got busy with life and it slipped' guy.
They come for a period of time until they get their shit together and then they don't need to keep coming. I load these guy up with as much as they can cope with.

You have the 'I want to do it but I just can't' guy.
These are guys who have a desire to play but feel as though there is something wrong with them that means that they are specifically unsuited to playing the guitar.
Positive encouragement and breaking things down as small as possible for them to have a series of successes is key here.

You have the 'I want it to be done, but I don't want to do the work' guy.
These are a pain in the ass.
They are inherently lazy, lie about the work they do and expect it to happen quicker than it is technically possible to even if you do the work.
They also argue with you about the best way to do things, despite not really being able to play. I don't teach this people (and I think I probably used to be one of them until I sorted myself out).

You have 'the flake'. He will come for a bit, then one day will stop coming without telling you- or a lame email/text 20 minutes after the lesson was due to start.

You have the 'humble, realistic and hardworking' guy.
This is the ideal student.
They might occasionally get down about how long it is taking but they work hard and don't put up roadblocks.
Be this guy.
When I was studying drumming with a teacher I tried to be this guy too.

And they are pretty much all 'guys'.
In 25 years of teaching I've only ever taught two women.

In my 10 years teaching I've had at least 3 of each of these types!

"The flake" and "I want it to be done, but I don't want to do the work guy" a lot. One only took 45 minute lessons per week, never practiced enough and expected to be a shred demon. Never going to work, I suggested to him he has to do hourly, for a slightly higher rate to make more progress. He quit soon after.

Need more of the "humble, realistic and hardworking" types! I'd say only 3 of my learners are these and they're a joy to teach. The rest make it a bit of drag cos I know they aren't putting the time into it to see the desired results, so it becomes work for me, but hey, business is business and I won't tell them to stop coming.

Lestratcaster · June 2018

What about the "Very wealthy and buys all the expensive guitars/gear but doesn't learn to use them properly guy"? (Mainly Les Pauls). Drives a Merc or Jag, and works Monday-Friday using his weekends to go away (when should be used for practising really). Big music fan but doesn't have the ear for music.

Ryder · June 2018

Hi. Long-time lurker here, this thread particularly interests as I'm in the 40 plus age group and playing 2 years - self taught.

I plan on getting lessons after the summer but wanted to ask in your experience what kind of time you need to practice each day? Currently spend 30mins every evening before bed practicing and some nights a bit more. Have made some progress in the last 2 years in terms of smooth chord changing etc but want to develop my improvising ability. I think I would get more out of the practice with more structure...or am I fooling myself?

Vibetronic · June 2018

Ryder said:

Hi. Long-time lurker here, this thread particularly interests as I'm in the 40 plus age group and playing 2 years - self taught.

I plan on getting lessons after the summer but wanted to ask in your experience what kind of time you need to practice each day? Currently spend 30mins every evening before bed practicing and some nights a bit more. Have made some progress in the last 2 years in terms of smooth chord changing etc but want to develop my improvising ability. I think I would get more out of the practice with more structure...or am I fooling myself?

30mins every day should be enough to see improvements, and from what you've said, it sounds like it is

Some structure to your practice will definitely help; having a teacher to set you goals will also help. That's not to say that you can't do this by going down the self-tuition route, but having someone with experience to guide you along will make it easier and quicker, particularly when you're moving onto more complex stuff like improvisation. They'll also be able to point out any basic mistakes/technique issues which are harder to identify if you're self-taught.

octatonic · June 2018

Lestratcaster said:
In my 10 years teaching I've had at least 3 of each of these types!

"The flake" and "I want it to be done, but I don't want to do the work guy" a lot. One only took 45 minute lessons per week, never practiced enough and expected to be a shred demon. Never going to work, I suggested to him he has to do hourly, for a slightly higher rate to make more progress. He quit soon after.

Need more of the "humble, realistic and hardworking" types! I'd say only 3 of my learners are these and they're a joy to teach. The rest make it a bit of drag cos I know they aren't putting the time into it to see the desired results, so it becomes work for me, but hey, business is business and I won't tell them to stop coming.

Interesting we have a similar experience here.
Do you also find that you can now pretty much clock which type they are going to adhere to after the first lesson?

pmbomb · June 2018

axisus said:

At the grand old age of 55 I quite fancy some guitar lessons. I guess one can't be too old but I was wondering if you do see people my sort of age getting lessons?

I'm 51, been playing 18 months and had a year of lessons, which I paused but intend to restart.

One thing I think of is at our age we don't have runway that youngsters do - they have decades in front of them to work and improve, whereas we'd don't have the same supply of time left. So the focus of lessons can help keep us moving.

I also found lessons helped me get through that difficult first year (when 90% of new starters quit). Taking a few weeks to learn a song I'd been hearing for 30 years probably isn't something I'd have seen through on my own - but weekly checking in with my teacher (mentor/leader) kept me on track. And once I could do it I became a player who could play something, and who could learn more, not a all-fingers-and-thumbs beginner. It's a significant milestone I think.

And also, lessons with the right teacher are fun, and get you playing in front of/with another person, instead of just lonely plinking away in your bedroom.

I will go back to lessons.

I also think it's important to understand a teacher can't really _teach_ you guitar. Your learning is done alone, practicing, you still teach yourself really. The teacher's role is more guide or mentor I think. But that's an important role.

Clarky · June 2018

octatonic said:

You have the 'I want to do it but I just can't' guy.
These are guys who have a desire to play but feel as though there is something wrong with them that means that they are specifically unsuited to playing the guitar.
Positive encouragement and breaking things down as small as possible for them to have a series of successes is key here.

these are the ones that I find most rewarding..
once you get them to understand that there is absolutely nothing wrong with them..
that they are not somehow musically disabled and that it's just a matter of enough repetition and hard work to develop the neural paths [and so motor skills] required to play...
you can start breaking down the barriers

I have a guy like this in his mid 20's.. loves guitars, rock and metal..
he came to me 3 years ago knowing nothing
now his warmup is the G major scale [3 notes per string, all 7 patterns] in quavers at 170bpm
which considering our starting point is massive..
he can play [amongst others]
Don't Believe a Word [Thin Lizzy from Live and Dangerous] including the solo along with the album
Judas Priest Genocide [from Unleashed in the East] including all solos and licks
and we're working on Judas Priest Hell Bent for Leather
all at full speed..
of all my students [all of which are more capable because they were reasonably solid players to start with] his journey has been by far the furthest
no it don't come easy to him.. but he puts in the work, sticks at it and he's absolutely loving it..
watching him grow has been and absolute joy

Lestratcaster · June 2018

octatonic said:

Lestratcaster said:
In my 10 years teaching I've had at least 3 of each of these types!

"The flake" and "I want it to be done, but I don't want to do the work guy" a lot. One only took 45 minute lessons per week, never practiced enough and expected to be a shred demon. Never going to work, I suggested to him he has to do hourly, for a slightly higher rate to make more progress. He quit soon after.

Need more of the "humble, realistic and hardworking" types! I'd say only 3 of my learners are these and they're a joy to teach. The rest make it a bit of drag cos I know they aren't putting the time into it to see the desired results, so it becomes work for me, but hey, business is business and I won't tell them to stop coming.

Interesting we have a similar experience here.
Do you also find that you can now pretty much clock which type they are going to adhere to after the first lesson?

First of all I kinda have a little bet with myself as to how long they'll last til they quit. If they're still with me after 6 months then there's a good chance they're a keeper.

But yes I do notice habits such as who's more committed and stuff as the lessons go on. You get to know what they're like as a person too, e.g if they're late every week and don't apologise you know that's what they're like in real life, yet somehow they keep a job. If it takes them a whole week to do 1 little task you know guitar isn't their priority.

vagabondshoe · July 2018

I’m 40 and just started a few weeks ago, wish I’d done it years ago. I’m already feeling a difference when I play at home and the encouragement from my teacher keeps me going (I was one of the people convinced they had a musical disability!)
I don’t have a lot of free time, but paying for lessons makes me feel like I can leave the ironing and play for an hour. Honestly it’s one of the best things I’ve done.

Lestratcaster · July 2018

vagabondshoe said:

I’m 40 and just started a few weeks ago, wish I’d done it years ago. I’m already feeling a difference when I play at home and the encouragement from my teacher keeps me going (I was one of the people convinced they had a musical disability!)
I don’t have a lot of free time, but paying for lessons makes me feel like I can leave the ironing and play for an hour. Honestly it’s one of the best things I’ve done.

Good on ya. And encouraging to see not all adults in their 40's blame work/family/home life as being a reason why they can't practice. It CAN be done you just have to make time, what annoys me is former learners quitting and seeing them in the high st shopping or on social media pissing around, when that time COULD be used practicing. Truth is they CAN do it, they just don't WANT to.

DLM · July 2018

axisus said:

I'd also like to learn some Satriani but I struggle terribly with TABs!

@LeeCassidy gave a way of learning some Satch without tab:

The transport controls in YouTube have got lots better, beats needle-lifting and -dropping!

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Guitar tutors - any of you have old students?

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