What makes a good melody?

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BranshenBranshen Frets: 1222
I've played music for a long time and this is still an absolute mystery to me.

Would love to hear how other musicians think of this. 
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  • LestratcasterLestratcaster Frets: 1079
    Something catchy and memorable, and one you can sing very easily after a couple of times of hearing it. Rhythmical variation and space.
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  • BranshenBranshen Frets: 1222
    edited July 2018
    But why is it catchy and memorable? 
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  • LestratcasterLestratcaster Frets: 1079
    Depends where it came from, major scales tend to sound happier and uplifting though there are some great rock riffs in minors. I don't know the science behind it but my ear likes catchy stuff!!
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  • gringopiggringopig Frets: 2648
    edited July 2020
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  • BranshenBranshen Frets: 1222
    Thanks for the reply @gringopig. Could you repost those videos? The forum has a bug when you edit posts with video links, they get converted to photos. I'd love to give them a listen. 
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14323
    Branshen said:
    But why is it catchy and memorable? 
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p012yrv9
    Be seeing you.
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  • gringopiggringopig Frets: 2648
    edited July 2020
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    edited July 2020
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    edited July 2020
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    edited July 2020
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    edited July 2020
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    edited July 2020
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  • tone1tone1 Frets: 5112
    The Old Grey Whistle Test B)
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  • jellyrolljellyroll Frets: 3073
    3rds and 7ths.......

    https://youtu.be/ydiRZEB9F8Q
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  • BellycasterBellycaster Frets: 5834
    Having learned so many songs over the years, I can confidently inform you that you have to write a song that stays in the same Key, but does the most wondrous things within those constraints or you write a song that changes key without the listener being aware and then returns to the original key again...and then changes again...Hang on, I had a Diagram somewhere........Bastard! I can't find it!

    Not taking the piss, I feel this pain too, there are so many songs out there I wish I had written.
    Only a Fool Would Say That.
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  • GrangousierGrangousier Frets: 2621
    In a book I read ages ago - can't remember exactly which - it was described as catching the balance between hookiness and gluiness. Yeah, I know, but bear with me. Gluiness was defined as being what everyone's heard before and expects. Hookiness was defined as something unique that they'd not heard before, and needed to hear your song again to hear again. If you don't have the former, it's just widdliness and people feel alienated from it, but if you don't have the latter it might as well be any other song in that genre. 

    If I wanted to be mean I'd throw Frank Zappa in as an example of the former and all Country since the mid-90s into the latter. YMMV.
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14323
    Frank Zappa ... all Country since the mid-90s into the latter.
    So, how would you categorise Truck Driver Divorce from the album Them Or Us?
    Be seeing you.
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  • GrangousierGrangousier Frets: 2621
    I'd probably wait until I was sober, listen and then admit I'd been an idiot all along. You know what I mean, though - Jazz From Hell at one end, random bloke in a Stetson at the other. 

    I should probably get out of the stereotyping business, I'm shit at it. 
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  • vizviz Frets: 10645
    edited July 2018
    I think there are lots of things that make a good melody. The piece below contains one of the most beautiful melodies ever conceived, IMO, - it’s the middle section of Rachmaninov’s Prelude in G minor, played here by the amazing Kissin. It’s the section 1:22-2:30. It’s unbelievable to think that something so simple can be so captivating. Here are my thoughts:

    Firstly it’s about where it sits in the overall piece, bookended by those two magnificent and staggeringly demanding ‘alla marcia’ sections. They provide huge contrast and accentuate the lyrical beauty of the tune. And in fact like a sandwich the fast sections would make no sense without the lyrical section. It’s a real win-win situation. You really have to listen to the whole thing to get the maximum out of the 1:22-2:30 bit. 

    Next there’s the structure of that middle section - the fact that the main tune is repeated - the first time it’s played, you hear it with an uneducated ear; the second time it evokes a feeling of huge nostalgia because you recognise it and yearn to hear the move from dominant to III chord again - and this time the primary melody notes just seem to contain more in them even though they’re the same. And then the concluding passage - those little rising couplets suggest to us that the time is up for the gorgeous melodic section and the alla marcia section is due to start again. It feels so wistful as the melodic section draws inexorably to a close and hands back control to the fast chordal section. It’s a kind of resignation. All Rachmaninov’s pieces bar none had one moment, one climax that the music led up to, and for almost all of them that happened near, but not at, the end of the piece. 

    Then the actual melody itself is incredibly simple. The first section is basically (approximately) 3 consecutive ascending notes, played 3 times over the dominant or VI chord - each time a note down. That motif is then repeated (with a more developed harmony), then hinted at again, this time over a progression based on the III chord, except this time each group of ascending notes is higher than the one before. Then the whole thing is repeated an octave higher. Then there’s a few descending rising couplets. It couldn’t be more simple.

    Of course then there’s the harmony. Melody is almost nothing without harmonic context. The juicy chords and shifting progressions underneath the tune are fundamental to how it sounds so gorgeous. 

    Plus there are actually two melodic lines - there is an underlying secondary tune that rises up and supports the main tune - and this gains more prominence the 2nd time round, almost overpowering the main tune. Rachmaninov was so clever. It provides a twisting, lilting, flowing movement to the melody. 

    Then of course there’s the phrasing of the performance itself; Kissin is a master. He builds all the tension then releases it. You almost hold your breath and then relax in unison with his playing. He brings out every element of the 2 tunes, he manages to hold the lines to their limits before letting them drop away again, he allows the harmonies to accentuate the tune in parts to squeeze every bit of meaning out of them.

    Sorry if this all sounds a bit contrived but I hope it works for some of you. 

    https://youtu.be/mxnL7UrkmY4
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9794
    viz said:

    Of course then there’s the harmony. Melody is almost nothing without harmonic context. The juicy chords and shifting progressions underneath the tune are fundamental to how it sounds so gorgeous. 

    Wis for just this on its own. (The rest of what you said made a lot of sense too!)
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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