Patriotism

What's Hot
WolfetoneWolfetone Frets: 1479
I have been to the US four times this year. The outstanding feature of the States is the patriotism of its people and I would go so far to say that there is no more a patriotic nation than America. The flag is omnipresent and revered. The military and police are thanked for their service and given priority treatment in most places. 

So, what is the problem with the UK and its apparent embarrassment with its identity? Why don't we have the same self belief and reverence for our flag and nation?

I am still here in the states and my current stay covered the July 4th celebration. I almost felt like a US citizen myself such was the heady patriotism of the modest parade put on by the local townspeople. They even polished up the municipal wagons and filled them with stars and stripes beach balls. 

Personally, I am sick of the introvertion and self denial of the British. We should celebrate our greatness, the flag and our heritage. We too should revere our union flag and nation. We should shame anyone that disrespects Britain.

Am I wrong or should I just become an American and be done with it? 
11reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 9reaction image Wisdom
«13456

Comments

  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    edited July 2018
    No you aren’t wrong, and before anyone tries any of that colonial shaming crap, the Americans should be reminded of when we abolished slavery and ensured equality for citizens of different race. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 2reaction image Wisdom
  • strtdvstrtdv Frets: 2356
    edited July 2018
    You don't share the views of your namesake then?

    On a more serious note, the USA has a superficial support of military personnel, but you don't need to look hard to find plenty of homeless ex-servicemen.

    The British are more reserved about most things, and to be honest I view the blind patriotism of the USA more as a form of control exerted by those in power over the working class.
    Robot Lords of Tokyo, SMILE TASTE KITTENS!
    0reaction image LOL 1reaction image Wow! 21reaction image Wisdom
  • LegionreturnsLegionreturns Frets: 7965
    Pride most certainly isn't universal stateside. Especially where police are concerned. 

    I also think that more and more people worldwide are becoming disconnected from their governments and the ruling classes, and the notion that one patch of land is better than another because of an arbitrary line on a map. 

    I'm certainly not proud of our leaders, but then they don't give a fuck about most of us either.

    My Trading Feedback    |    You Bring The Band

    Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 5reaction image Wisdom
  • This denagration of our national identity is a communist conspiracy to sap and infiltrate our natural bodily fluids.
    Feedback Thread: https://goo.gl/bquaSD
    8reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Adam_MDAdam_MD Frets: 3420
    edited July 2018
    My problem with American patriotism is the extent to which it is taken and that if you dare question or criticise the country in any way you’re spitting on the flag and if you don’t like it you should get the hell out.

    As @strtdv said earlier their support of their military personnel is often very superficial and quite sickening at times when servicemen are thanked for their service yet denied medical care or housing.

    My main issue though is how politicised patriotism is and if you somehow disagree with something and wish to protest you’re somehow unamerican even though peaceful protest is about as American as you can get.  

    Many of them seem to have forgotten the nation is the people that it’s made of and not a piece of cloth to bow down to.  
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 8reaction image Wisdom
  • underdogunderdog Frets: 8334
    I like to think in the UK we are more realistic, in the US they have very little history and little to identify with, so they identify with the flag and the American dream. The reality is of course a country that cares little for the majority of the people that live in it, but they still place their faith in God and the flag.

    The UK is more realistic we know the people who run the place care very little for the average guy, we know our history and how poor we were towards foreign countries and even follow UK countries, why would we worship a flag? 

    I think you're far more likely to find people being proud of Scotland, Ireland, Wales or England than of being British.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • KilgoreKilgore Frets: 8599
    It's Disneyland Patriotism. Marching bands, glitter and pom poms. 


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 15reaction image Wisdom
  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11791
    I think that the patriotism we see presented from the USA is too intense for many in the UK
    I assume this is based on lessons in the collective UK psyche from Hitler and Stalin
    These concerns may be inapplicable now
    However, I still feel that intense patriotism is all a bit sinister
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    I don’t care about where I was born.
    2reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 4reaction image Wisdom
  • SchnozzSchnozz Frets: 1926
    edited July 2018
    Patriotism = Racism in the UK

    If the UK introduced a 'points system' like that in Canada (one of the most politically correct nations in the world) or Australia, then that too, would be deemed racist...Why would you want to select skills that would be useful to the economy and focus upon up-skilling entry-level staff? And if you did, then that means you would automatically have a disgusting attitude to any friend or associate that you currently have, that's from abroad or born to parents from abroad.

    You should also be ashamed of anything Britain did 100 years ago, because you influenced that remember? Now lets interview some football hooligans as a representation of what Britain would be like, if we were to take more pride...

    I spent some time on Interrail this Summer and listened to a Londoner apologizing for Brexit (as if you had a choice) to the Europeans in the hostel and they could not give a monkeys, but the Londoner thought they were being profound (aka crowd pleasing). A European said that they thought the EU were 'bullies', which was refreshing.

    Anyway, I'll leave it to the illogical and go back to staring at nice Basses.
    2reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 12reaction image Wisdom
  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 6838
    Patrotism is fucking moronic if you think about it. 

    Billions of very particular instances led to my spawning on this Earth, and more specifically England, so what, I’m supposed to suck the lands dick and fly a banner with someones old drawing on it? 

    Hell nah. 

    Respect is earned. 


    Besides, If we all stop giving a fuck about where we’re from and look to where we are going, maybe act a lil selflessly on behalf of the Earth as a whole, imagine where we would be already. 
    The only easy day, was yesterday...
    3reaction image LOL 1reaction image Wow! 14reaction image Wisdom
  • sinbaadisinbaadi Frets: 1297
    I agree, it's just a form of tribalism really.
    There are things that we are taught to be proud of from our history from an early age, and the things some of our predecessors did should be revered by the rest of us.  If that is then called pride then I'm okay with that, but to be proud simply of the label is silly.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 6807
    I work with people in several countries every day, and we each work from home so its easy to have side chats about things.  Only the UK has a hang-up about its national identity.  Americans have a flag they are proud of, which I find strange as its just a bit of cloth, but then Westminster, Buckingham Palace, Tower Bridge are just piles of stones?  They are still seen as icons of Britain. 

    As a child of the fifties, I grew up in an exciting country of V-bombers, Beatles, Minis, 1966 World Cup etc where being proud of this country was normal.  Now its seen as abnormal and we teach our kids to be ashamed of their country's history. 

    What a strange thing to do, teach kids to be ashamed...
    4reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 9reaction image Wisdom
  • horsehorse Frets: 1563
    Wolfetone said:
    ...We should shame anyone that disrespects Britain.

     How very dare they?!

    My own view is a gentler version of the article below - I feel fortunate rather than proud, and certainly not superior on that basis:

    https://tuckered.co.uk/2018/04/27/patriots-are-dicks/

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Axe_meisterAxe_meister Frets: 4613
    I personally find it all rather Crass and over the top.
    Many have become so patriotic they can no longer see the wood for the trees and cannot recognise the ills and faults of US society 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • valevale Frets: 1052
    edited July 2018
    i would say much mistrust of patriotism in britain (& in general) has to be down to the fact that it's all too often the first bullsh*t & illogical button that 'not very reputable people' (politicians, right wing interest groups, hooligans) seek to press to try to enagage others in causes & arguments that logic & reason would never support.

    as with religion & tradition, patriotism falls into the same category. as often as not.
    an excuse & a non-reason appealed to justify the inexcusable & the irrational.

    go to farage/hopkins/ukip/edl/etc's twitter homepage & witness (in the comments below each tweet) a wall of supportive (hateful, fascist, racist, intolerant) comments, all bearing identical union jack/george cross/lion/bulldog/churchill avatars.
    when the people who make most noise & display of their 'patriotism' are those people you least feel any sense of solidarity of spirit or community feeling with, it's not hard to see why so many decent & reasonable people don't want anything to do with the symbolism or that kind of perverted nationalist sentiment.

    i love britain & lot of the people & the landscape & i feel proud of some of our history. but i don't feel any overwhelming need to make a big song & dance about it. it just doesn't seem necessary.

    ironically, maybe that's the most authentic & typically brit way by which brit can express their patriotism;
    by not making a huge fuss about it & just getting on with it. & let the yanks do it their way.
    hofner hussie & hayman harpie. what she said...
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 12reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” - Samuel Johnson

    Remember that in the USA, you don’t have to be anti-American to be perceived as a traitor...

    Being un-American is enough.

    It has some good aspects too, but overall I prefer the British version.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    What are the benefits of patriotism to the individual?
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • SporkySporky Frets: 27590
    Wolfetone said:
    We should shame anyone that disrespects Britain.
    This sounds like a very dangerous suggestion to me - you seem to be proposing using societal pressure to censor any criticism of the UK. Not a giant step from that to being an oppressive regime. 

    There are lots of good things about the UK, but that should not blind us to the things that should be better. 
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 6reaction image Wisdom
  • RolandRoland Frets: 8592
    edited July 2018
    What are the benefits of patriotism to the individual?
    Blindly following patriotism, or any other cause, saves you from the pain and effort of having to think for yourself. It brings the comfort of feeling that others support your views.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 3reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.