neck pick up to pair with a JB?

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  • ReverendReverend Frets: 4974
    ICBM said:
    Reverend said:
    The Ltd viper I think is a 300 or something. It's very old (one of the first that came out) and has those passive emg things. I like the jb in mahogany as they have plenty of oomph with out the flat harshness of most high output pickups. I tune to c and play loud. I dont care about how things sound much when playing at home because the is mostly irrelevant. How things sound on stage is the thing really. The other guitar is an lp studio rhat plays well but sounds a bit weak compared to my others. I have a in sat around and waiting to be used. Got a Sd with a sticker that says 59bg which i presume is a 59 bridge.
    I have one that days #2 al v and has a small paf black sticker as well. It has been measure at 8k. 
    I think for the type of music you play and the sound you're using, anything even roughly PAF-like in the bridge is going to be too low-output and not middy enough. I find the '59 bridge a bit thin and lacking punch even though I don't use anything like that sort of sound and I love the '59 neck...

    I would be looking at 10-12K upwards (yes I know the DC resistance is only a rough indicator!) and probably not Alnico II, I find that too soft-sounding unless the winding is even bigger - the Duncan Custom Custom (14.5K) is the only Alnico II bridge pickup I like, but may also not have enough definition for you.

    I don't think the JB/'59 combination is a bad choice for what you're describing even though it is very much not in fashion now.

    [Slight thread diversion] The same is true of V30 speakers. No longer very fashionable, not good for more open, vintage-style tones with low-powered amps - but still a great choice for harder rock sounds at gig volume (especially down-tuned), they have a punch and aggression that just works for that.
    As you say the resistance is only a rough indication but if I have something like a in which is around 14k them would should the neck be, roughly? I.e. so that it there is n9 huge change in output when switching?
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  • AlegreeAlegree Frets: 665
    tFB Trader
    Reverend said:
    ICBM said:
    Reverend said:
    The Ltd viper I think is a 300 or something. It's very old (one of the first that came out) and has those passive emg things. I like the jb in mahogany as they have plenty of oomph with out the flat harshness of most high output pickups. I tune to c and play loud. I dont care about how things sound much when playing at home because the is mostly irrelevant. How things sound on stage is the thing really. The other guitar is an lp studio rhat plays well but sounds a bit weak compared to my others. I have a in sat around and waiting to be used. Got a Sd with a sticker that says 59bg which i presume is a 59 bridge.
    I have one that days #2 al v and has a small paf black sticker as well. It has been measure at 8k. 
    I think for the type of music you play and the sound you're using, anything even roughly PAF-like in the bridge is going to be too low-output and not middy enough. I find the '59 bridge a bit thin and lacking punch even though I don't use anything like that sort of sound and I love the '59 neck...

    I would be looking at 10-12K upwards (yes I know the DC resistance is only a rough indicator!) and probably not Alnico II, I find that too soft-sounding unless the winding is even bigger - the Duncan Custom Custom (14.5K) is the only Alnico II bridge pickup I like, but may also not have enough definition for you.

    I don't think the JB/'59 combination is a bad choice for what you're describing even though it is very much not in fashion now.

    [Slight thread diversion] The same is true of V30 speakers. No longer very fashionable, not good for more open, vintage-style tones with low-powered amps - but still a great choice for harder rock sounds at gig volume (especially down-tuned), they have a punch and aggression that just works for that.
    As you say the resistance is only a rough indication but if I have something like a in which is around 14k them would should the neck be, roughly? I.e. so that it there is n9 huge change in output when switching?
    Let's break this down for the sake of anyone who's not aware. DCR is not a definitive output level. It's connected to wind count, so as it's been said, it's a rough guide. 

    14k of 43 is about 7000 winds of each bobbin. You'll want about 5500 winds on each bobbin in the neck position to match.

    This means you want a neck humbucker of around 8.5k in 42 AWG, 11k of 43 AWG, or 13.5k of 44 AWG to match in output (give or take a little for the relative strength of the magnet)
    Alegree pickups & guitar supplies - www.alegree.co.uk
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  • OilCityPickupsOilCityPickups Frets: 9988
    tFB Trader
    Alegree said:
    Reverend said:
    ICBM said:
    Reverend said:
    The Ltd viper I think is a 300 or something. It's very old (one of the first that came out) and has those passive emg things. I like the jb in mahogany as they have plenty of oomph with out the flat harshness of most high output pickups. I tune to c and play loud. I dont care about how things sound much when playing at home because the is mostly irrelevant. How things sound on stage is the thing really. The other guitar is an lp studio rhat plays well but sounds a bit weak compared to my others. I have a in sat around and waiting to be used. Got a Sd with a sticker that says 59bg which i presume is a 59 bridge.
    I have one that days #2 al v and has a small paf black sticker as well. It has been measure at 8k. 
    I think for the type of music you play and the sound you're using, anything even roughly PAF-like in the bridge is going to be too low-output and not middy enough. I find the '59 bridge a bit thin and lacking punch even though I don't use anything like that sort of sound and I love the '59 neck...

    I would be looking at 10-12K upwards (yes I know the DC resistance is only a rough indicator!) and probably not Alnico II, I find that too soft-sounding unless the winding is even bigger - the Duncan Custom Custom (14.5K) is the only Alnico II bridge pickup I like, but may also not have enough definition for you.

    I don't think the JB/'59 combination is a bad choice for what you're describing even though it is very much not in fashion now.

    [Slight thread diversion] The same is true of V30 speakers. No longer very fashionable, not good for more open, vintage-style tones with low-powered amps - but still a great choice for harder rock sounds at gig volume (especially down-tuned), they have a punch and aggression that just works for that.
    As you say the resistance is only a rough indication but if I have something like a in which is around 14k them would should the neck be, roughly? I.e. so that it there is n9 huge change in output when switching?
    Let's break this down for the sake of anyone who's not aware. DCR is not a definitive output level. It's connected to wind count, so as it's been said, it's a rough guide. 

    14k of 43 is about 7000 winds of each bobbin. You'll want about 5500 winds on each bobbin in the neck position to match.

    This means you want a neck humbucker of around 8.5k in 42 AWG, 11k of 43 AWG, or 13.5k of 44 AWG to match in output (give or take a little for the relative strength of the magnet)
    Exactly  ... nice to have another person to take the strain of exploding the DCR myth :-)
    Professional pickup winder, horse-testpilot and recovering Chocolate Hobnob addict.
    Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups  ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message  

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    Also very useful to see the actual numbers given like that - I knew the theory and what tends to work from experience, but not the figures.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14324
    Just done a soldering job on a Musicman Axis SS. Its EBMM-spec DiMarzio humbuckers give some surprisingly high DCR meter readings - mainly to achieve acceptable coil split sounds.

    The basic bridge/both/neck humbucker selections do not produce the *Metal* sounds that the statistics might lead you to expect.
    Be seeing you.
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  • ReverendReverend Frets: 4974
    How might I find out what gauge and windings a pick up might have?
    I have an old Gibson covered pickup that measures 8.5 and the guy trht measured that reckoned it was a bridge pick up. 
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  • AlegreeAlegree Frets: 665
    tFB Trader
    Reverend said:
    How might I find out what gauge and windings a pick up might have?
    I have an old Gibson covered pickup that measures 8.5 and the guy trht measured that reckoned it was a bridge pick up. 
    That sounds like it'll be 42 AWG plain enamel. Typical PAF replica specifications.
    Alegree pickups & guitar supplies - www.alegree.co.uk
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  • OilCityPickupsOilCityPickups Frets: 9988
    edited July 2018 tFB Trader
    8.5k is what you'd expect from a 42awg wound, PAF style bridge pickup ... 
    And if your pickup maker doesn't publish what wire gauge he uses ... then best guess is pretty much all you have. 
    Makers are often cagey about what gauge they use as plagiarism is rife in the pickup making world: if your wire gauge is known, and your magnet type  then it's a pretty simple thing to copy your design. 

    Of course there's nothing 'wrong' about using a bridge humbucker in the neck with a higher gain bridge pickup ... pickup manufacturers do it all the time ... many a neck pickup in a high gain set is actually a recycled bridge pickup design from a lower output set in their range.
    Professional pickup winder, horse-testpilot and recovering Chocolate Hobnob addict.
    Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups  ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message  

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  • paulphoenixpaulphoenix Frets: 141
    edited July 2018
    Just done a soldering job on a Musicman Axis SS. Its EBMM-spec DiMarzio humbuckers give some surprisingly high DCR meter readings - mainly to achieve acceptable coil split sounds.

    The basic bridge/both/neck humbucker selections do not produce the *Metal* sounds that the statistics might lead you to expect.
    @Funkfingers ;; would you be happy to reveal the DCR readings you got for the EBMM spec humbuckers (either here or by PM) please? It could possibly be a great help to me.

    Reason for why? - I am about to upgrade the pickups in one of my guitars with a view to gigging it as a back up to my #1 guitar -  EBMM Axis. 

    If I install new pickups that are in the same ball park (DCR wise) as my Axis, then there'd be little to no faff  (changing amp/pedal settings)  when swapping guitars mid gig. 
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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7735
    edited July 2018
    Just done a soldering job on a Musicman Axis SS. Its EBMM-spec DiMarzio humbuckers give some surprisingly high DCR meter readings - mainly to achieve acceptable coil split sounds.

    The basic bridge/both/neck humbucker selections do not produce the *Metal* sounds that the statistics might lead you to expect.
    @Funkfingers ;;;; would you be happy to reveal the DCR readings you got for the EBMM spec humbuckers (either here or by PM) please? It could possibly be a great help to me.

    Reason for why? - I am about to upgrade the pickups in one of my guitars with a view to gigging it as a back up to my #1 guitar -  EBMM Axis. 

    If I install new pickups that are in the same ball park (DCR wise) as my Axis, then there'd be little to no faff  (changing amp/pedal settings)  when swapping guitars mid gig. 
    I have a pair of these in my parts box. Too hot for my taste. Were 12-16k and I believe similar to other Dimarzios like the tone zone/Norton
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