Volume issues - it's peeing me off

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  • meltedbuzzboxmeltedbuzzbox Frets: 10337
    at rehearsal we used to put all our amps at the far end of the room (opposite side to the drummer) for similar reasons. 
    It used to work for us. 
    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4947
    The point is that you might be too loud. The function of the band is to support the lead vocalist. If he/she sounds loud and clear, the band adjust their volumes to suit. Faffing about with pedals is one way to get on everyone's wick due to loudness issued. Ask yourself do you really need to use every pedal on your board. If you do, then put in the hours balancing volume levels. When happy, write the settings down in case something gets accidentally moved. Check the settings against the sheet before every gig.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    Rocker said:
    The point is that you might be too loud. The function of the band is to support the lead vocalist. If he/she sounds loud and clear, the band adjust their volumes to suit. Faffing about with pedals is one way to get on everyone's wick due to loudness issued. Ask yourself do you really need to use every pedal on your board. If you do, then put in the hours balancing volume levels. When happy, write the settings down in case something gets accidentally moved. Check the settings against the sheet before every gig.
    I both agree and disagree. The band is there to balance and enrich the sound in equal measure, not just to support the lead vocalist - to supplement, complement, broaden and much more.
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    Rocker said:
    The point is that you might be too loud. The function of the band is to support the lead vocalist. If he/she sounds loud and clear, the band adjust their volumes to suit. Faffing about with pedals is one way to get on everyone's wick due to loudness issued. Ask yourself do you really need to use every pedal on your board. If you do, then put in the hours balancing volume levels. When happy, write the settings down in case something gets accidentally moved. Check the settings against the sheet before every gig.
    I both agree and disagree. The band is there to balance and enrich the sound in equal measure, not just to support the lead vocalist - to supplement, complement, broaden and much more.
    For God's sake man, you're on the slippery slope to prog rock there...
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    p90fool said:
    Rocker said:
    The point is that you might be too loud. The function of the band is to support the lead vocalist. If he/she sounds loud and clear, the band adjust their volumes to suit. Faffing about with pedals is one way to get on everyone's wick due to loudness issued. Ask yourself do you really need to use every pedal on your board. If you do, then put in the hours balancing volume levels. When happy, write the settings down in case something gets accidentally moved. Check the settings against the sheet before every gig.
    I both agree and disagree. The band is there to balance and enrich the sound in equal measure, not just to support the lead vocalist - to supplement, complement, broaden and much more.
    For God's sake man, you're on the slippery slope to prog rock there...
    Yes.


    (See what I did there?)
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  • JayGeeJayGee Frets: 1254
    p90fool said:
    Rocker said:
    The point is that you might be too loud. The function of the band is to support the lead vocalist. If he/she sounds loud and clear, the band adjust their volumes to suit. Faffing about with pedals is one way to get on everyone's wick due to loudness issued. Ask yourself do you really need to use every pedal on your board. If you do, then put in the hours balancing volume levels. When happy, write the settings down in case something gets accidentally moved. Check the settings against the sheet before every gig.
    I both agree and disagree. The band is there to balance and enrich the sound in equal measure, not just to support the lead vocalist - to supplement, complement, broaden and much more.
    For God's sake man, you're on the slippery slope to prog rock there...
    Yes.


    (See what I did there?)
    I think there’s the genesis of an idea in there...
    Don't ask me, I just play the damned thing...
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4947
    Sorry but I don't get the point you are making @Bridgehouse. If you leave aside wedding or corporate gigs, the singer is what punters hear and remember. Sometimes this fact is hard for us guitarists to accept but that is how it is (when you are out there playing gigs).
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    Rocker said:
    Sorry but I don't get the point you are making @Bridgehouse. If you leave aside wedding or corporate gigs, the singer is what punters hear and remember. Sometimes this fact is hard for us guitarists to accept but that is how it is (when you are out there playing gigs).
    I’m not a guitarist ;)

    The word I don’t agree with is “support”

    No. At a wedding, the lead vocalist won’t get the tipsy guests bums wiggling. They won’t get the feet tapping. They won’t get the air guitarists widdling their fingers to their favourite solos. 

    A band is a unit that delivers a sound. The lead vocalist may well be putting the lyrics out there, but on their own they are a completely different proposition.
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  • robinbowesrobinbowes Frets: 3021
    Disagree.

    The singer is the most important element of most bands.

    R.
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    Disagree.

    The singer is the most important element of most bands.

    R.
    Sorry but I’d say Page, Bonham and JPJ were more important than the Wolverhampton crooner. If anything his voice was the (overall) weakest element. 

    I’d draw out a lot more examples but it’s late and meh.
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  • robinbowesrobinbowes Frets: 3021
    You give me one example, of a particular type of band.

    Ok, I'll roll with it. Let's assume that bands most well-known track is playing. What do people singalong with?
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    You give me one example, of a particular type of band.

    Ok, I'll roll with it. Let's assume that bands most well-known track is playing. What do people singalong with?
    GnR. Sweet Child. What’s most important?

    Deep Purple. Smoke on the wataaaah. What’s most important?

    Fleetwood Mac. The Chain. What’s most important. 

    Coldpay (ffs). Clocks. What’s most important? 

    Answer is of course, every bit of the band.


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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    Anyway, this is irrelevant to the original question - the fact is, a band needs to be mixed for balance and for the best possible sound. Guitar included. Sometimes that mix can be screwed up by a narrow projecting guitar amp or a poorly positioned cab - and of course on stage balance is a totally different thing to front of house balance. 
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  • @Travisthedog I also have an Egnater Rebel 30 and the Watt control isn't actually an attenuator, it's more of an effect on the headroom of the amp. So, for example, if you want the drive channel to break up sooner and give you more compression, you would wind the Watt control down to 1. 

    I was having the same issue as you where the amp was too loud for rehearsals and small gigs so what I did was built a volume control that plugs into the effects loop (similar to what @p90fool suggested re using a volume pedal) and now I can set the two channels to a reasonable level, and then wind up this fake Master volume control.

    I got the idea from this video by Brian Wampler 

    A feature that a lot of people don't seem to talk about on these Rebel amps is how good the DI output on the back is. It's my go to for recording and putting my amp through the PA and very easy for a soundperson to control. The added benefit to this is that you can then have your amp directed at you acting as a monitor rather than facing forward and you don't have to have another microphone stand on stage.


    "As with all things, some days you're the dinosaur, some days you're the monkey." Sporky
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    p90fool said: no
    +1 on the cleaner amp/dirtier pedal balance, it's a lot more predictable. 

    Do you have an effects loop? If so, bung a volume pedal in it so you can self mix.

    It may not be your fault at all, I depped with a band on Saturday with a bassist who was deafening on his favourite songs and inaudible on most others, making ME feel I was too loud or too quiet a lot of the time.
    This sounds wrong to me. The dirtier the amp the more compression in the sound so pushing volume on the input is going to get more saturation rather than more volume unless you aren't going into the front end hit enough in which case your SNR is prob shite by the time you add distortion anyway. By contrast if you are going into a clean amp with plenty of head room then you will be at the mercy of your pedals volune settings. I guess maybe you were talking about boosting into a crunch channel which obviously will lie somewhere between the 2.

    The answer of course is to use amp gain because it is at least 8 times better anyway.
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    p90fool said: no
    +1 on the cleaner amp/dirtier pedal balance, it's a lot more predictable. 

    Do you have an effects loop? If so, bung a volume pedal in it so you can self mix.

    It may not be your fault at all, I depped with a band on Saturday with a bassist who was deafening on his favourite songs and inaudible on most others, making ME feel I was too loud or too quiet a lot of the time.
    This sounds wrong to me. The dirtier the amp the more compression in the sound so pushing volume on the input is going to get more saturation rather than more volume unless you aren't going into the front end hit enough in which case your SNR is prob shite by the time you add distortion anyway. By contrast if you are going into a clean amp with plenty of head room then you will be at the mercy of your pedals volune settings. I guess maybe you were talking about boosting into a crunch channel which obviously will lie somewhere between the 2.

    The answer of course is to use amp gain because it is at least 8 times better anyway.
    Did you read the post you just quoted at all?
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    Prob should have quoted ICBM but was really aimed at both of you (your first sentence) recommending drive pedals to get the dirt. More controllable, but less consistent volume wise. 
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    Prob should have quoted ICBM but was really aimed at both of you (your first sentence) recommending drive pedals to get the dirt. More controllable, but less consistent volume wise. 
    It's a matter of having the right pedals and setting the levels properly.

    I've never yet come across a channel switcher that sounds as good as a good single channel amp.  Most drive in channel switch amps sounds fizzy anyway.

    The ideal is to get a single channel amp on the edge of breakup, so when you do kick a pedal in, it's not just pedal drive.  It will be pushing the amnp over the edge as well.
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    crunchman said:
    Prob should have quoted ICBM but was really aimed at both of you (your first sentence) recommending drive pedals to get the dirt. More controllable, but less consistent volume wise. 
    It's a matter of having the right pedals and setting the levels properly.

    I've never yet come across a channel switcher that sounds as good as a good single channel amp.  Most drive in channel switch amps sounds fizzy anyway.

    The ideal is to get a single channel amp on the edge of breakup, so when you do kick a pedal in, it's not just pedal drive.  It will be pushing the amnp over the edge as well.
    A lot of the signature drive tones from the last 30 years have been from channel switchers! I think you're stuck in the 70s!
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    crunchman said:
    Prob should have quoted ICBM but was really aimed at both of you (your first sentence) recommending drive pedals to get the dirt. More controllable, but less consistent volume wise. 
    It's a matter of having the right pedals and setting the levels properly.

    I've never yet come across a channel switcher that sounds as good as a good single channel amp.  Most drive in channel switch amps sounds fizzy anyway.

    The ideal is to get a single channel amp on the edge of breakup, so when you do kick a pedal in, it's not just pedal drive.  It will be pushing the amnp over the edge as well.
    A lot of the signature drive tones from the last 30 years have been from channel switchers! I think you're stuck in the 70s!
    I've had channel switchers (at least 4 of them) and got rid of them.

    A good simple single channel amp seems to have a quality of tone that is missing from any channel switcher I have ever tried.
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