NAD - Laney goodness

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  • nick79nick79 Frets: 252
    edited July 2018
    I've had a few days with it now and to me it really does sound fantastic. It's too loud for band practise (but then i thought it would be). About 3 on the gain is perfect gigging volume, and at that point it's crystal clean. Lovely sound, very dynamic and bold and responds so well to picking. 
    Starts breaking up at about 4 (with humbuckers) but again can be controlled so well with just winding back the guitar volume a touch. 
    At 5 it's properly starting to break up and after that doesn't really get any louder, just more break up. 
    At 10 it's starting to go into meltdown (in a good way) and that strange lower octave type effect comes into play. Boosted with the TI boost and it's instant Black Sabbath - not close to it, it really is that sound that i've been after for so long. 

    I've got an attenuater now just to knock off a bit off volume, i think i'll be running it at about 6 or 7 on the gain and hit it with the Ti boost, it seem's happiest about there. 
     
    So overall i'm really enjoying it and it's everything (and more) that i hoped it would be. 
    But there is a fly in the ointment.... 
    According to Laney it's construction is 'turret board that is hand soldered'. They have also made mention of it being constructed with turret board and pcb that is hand populated. 

    https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1788/42557910014_3d6506b2d6_z.jpg


    But it's not. It's all pcb, no turret boards in sight. 
    https://farm1.staticflickr.com/836/42371838035_04fd1e9bb1_z.jpg

    So either someone in Laney's marketing department has got the wrong end of the stick, or they are being dishonest. I would like to think the former.. To begin with i was pretty pissed off and was going to return the amp, but now i've had a few days to think about it (and some very helpful advice) i'm going to keep it. Its a lovely sounding thing, and to be honest i did wonder how Laney could make a handwired turret board amp for less than £900. I do think its out of order how they have marketed it though - If i had known it was all pcb from the start i would still have bought it. 


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  • I would guess the 100w version is turret board, as that one is a limited edition version (I think), whereas the 30w isn't.
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  • nick79nick79 Frets: 252
    Yes, the 100 is hand wired turret board.
    I just think it's a bit off that people have been misinformed about this one.
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31367
    What are those heatsinks for? 
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  • nick79 said:
    Yes, the 100 is hand wired turret board.
    I just think it's a bit off that people have been misinformed about this one.

    Can you not post something on that Facebook/Twitter thread to highlight the issue?
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  • kreggskreggs Frets: 64
    p90fool said:
    What are those heatsinks for? 
    Hmm thats intersting looks like a transistor  mounted to it. Wonder if that's  part of some gain stage?
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31367
    That's what I wondered, but the big heatsinks imply power transistors? 
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  • kreggskreggs Frets: 64
    No idea really. Tried looking for schematic no joy. Looks like they mounted the valves to the pcb too. I see thats common with some makers now. I like it better when the valves sockets are on the chassis rather than the pcb. hmmmmm. Still looks like an awesome amp though :)
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  • kreggskreggs Frets: 64
    Maybe the transistors are for phase inversion? push pull amp
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    kreggs said:
    p90fool said:
    What are those heatsinks for? 
    Hmm thats intersting looks like a transistor  mounted to it. Wonder if that's  part of some gain stage?
    Since it was me that nick79 asked for advice, he also sent me a couple more pics. The heatsinked components are marked U1 and U2 which would imply ICs rather than transistors, and since they have three leads I think they're probably voltage regulators for a DC filament supply - there are also too many rectifier diodes (bottom right in the pic) to be accounted for by the HT and bias rectifiers alone, so I think this is most likely.

    If so there are no solid-state components in the audio path, since there are no others visible as far as I can see.

    I would actually hope someone from Laney could confirm this as it would answer some questions.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31367
    It's certainly interesting, not least because it has a full complement of valves for its features and is not just a Bassman-type with a few tweaks.

    Whatever those components do, it looks like a deliberately unusual design rather than a cheap shortcut. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    p90fool said:
    It's certainly interesting, not least because it has a full complement of valves for its features and is not just a Bassman-type with a few tweaks.
    Actually it is, if it’s a recreation of the original Supergroup circuit - which is a copy of a Marshall Super Bass, which is a slight evolution of a JTM45, which is a copy of a 5F6-A Bassman.

    p90fool said:

    Whatever those components do, it looks like a deliberately unusual design rather than a cheap shortcut. 
    After some more looking at the pics, I’m more sure they’re filament voltage regulators - firstly the heatsinks are quite large, which means the components are handling a lot of current, and secondly the filament connections to the preamp valves are different from the phase inverter. So my best guess is one regulator for each preamp valve, which would also fit with their physical location.

    One problem with DC filament supplies is that by simply rectifying and filtering the AC supply, you end up with too high a voltage, which is not good for valve life. Voltage regulators would fix that.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    It's also worth pointing out that this amp demonstrates something important...

    You can't tell just by listening whether an amp is PCB or turret board, eyelet board, true point to point etc.

    If the circuits are the same, the differences in tone are due mostly to component quality and a little to do with layout. A PCB actually has an advantage in that the layout can be more consistent, although a neatly-made hand-wired amp can be too.

    The real differences are more in long-term reliability and maintenance.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • kreggskreggs Frets: 64
    I doesn't  look like the worst amp in the world to service.  Easy enough  to get at. I guess if you wanted the main board out you would need all the pots unbolted. So do these  boards gets manufactured offshore with a populated or unpopulated  board? And is the hand wiring part just plugging in the jumpers  and bolting it down? 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    kreggs said:
    I doesn't  look like the worst amp in the world to service.  Easy enough  to get at. I guess if you wanted the main board out you would need all the pots unbolted.
    Yes, it's certainly not too bad.

    My worries in the long term are more to do with the PCB jumper connectors (these have a habit of making a bad contact eventually), the surface-mount components (relatively few, and if they're only resistors which have no chance of ever burning out then it's not an issue at all - although the rectifier diodes might be, they could damage the board if they fail), and those big heatsinks... they're good at protecting the components they're cooling, but where they're mounted means a lot of the heat will go straight into the PCB - remember that the chassis is upside down in the pic, so they hang down from under it.

    I'm not actually a fan of DC filament supplies at all, they always cause issues with extra heat. A well-designed layout and gain structure shouldn't be noisy even with an AC supply. (This assumes that's what it is! Although I can't think of any other possibilities.)

    kreggs said:

    So do these  boards gets manufactured offshore with a populated or unpopulated  board?
    No idea where they're made, but they are not hand-populated, apart from possibly some of the larger components. Not sure what difference it makes anyway...

    kreggs said:

    And is the hand wiring part just plugging in the jumpers  and bolting it down? 
    Probably :).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • nick79nick79 Frets: 252
    Thanks for your input guys, (and huge thanks to @ICBM for the tech advice). Taking everything into account i still feel mislead by Laney about the construction of the amp, BUT (a big but) i'm very happy with it. I've had a few sessions now with it where i can wind it up and it really is very good. Sweet spot for me is at about 7 on the gain control, it's breaking up very nicely, responds to picking dynamics nicely and cleans up well using volume on the guitar. 
    Hit it with an overdrive pedal (ts9 is fantastic through it) and it really sings. 

    It's a different world away from any amp i've had before, i've no regrets letting my Mini Rec go.
    First gig tomorrow night with it, and looking forward to it.  :)
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    nick79 said:

    It's a different world away from any amp i've had before, i've no regrets letting my Mini Rec go.
    And just to make you feel better, the Mini Rec is full of jumper connectors ;). Although no surface-mount parts as far as I can remember.

    Ironically, I repaired a Rectoverb 25 a couple of weeks ago, and the fault was a *solder joint* on a wire which hadn't 'taken' properly to the PCB when it was made... so you can't win!

    At the end of the day, if it sounds good, doesn't break, and if it does break is fairly easy to repair, it's all good. I think :).

    But I do agree with you about the misleading marketing.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • kreggskreggs Frets: 64
    Well sure If it makes you grin from ear to ear then its money well spent!
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  • nick79nick79 Frets: 252
    kreggs said:
    Well sure If it makes you grin from ear to ear then its money well spent!
    It certainly does! Had a few loud practises with it now (and one gig). It sounds glorious, and so dynamic. I've never had a non master volume 'old school' amp before and its so much more versatile than i would have thought. Cranked on 10 and boosted it's unbelievable. 
    But it also has fantastic cleans, and every pedal i've put through it so far has sounded incredible. 

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