Turbos on cars

Modellista · July 2018

Small normally-aspirated petrols are still awful though. Had a brand new Tipo hire car on holiday a few weeks ago. 1.4NA with 90bhp. Had to change down to *4TH* to get up small inclines on the motorway. I still can't quite believe they're still making such awful engines. I think my first car, a carburated F-reg 1.3 Astra, had more poke. I guess it could loosen up with age, but not enough to make it worth it. Turbo all the way.

rlw · July 2018

modellista said:

Small normally-aspirated petrols are still awful though. Had a brand new Tipo hire car on holiday a few weeks ago. 1.4NA with 90bhp. Had to change down to *4TH* to get up small inclines on the motorway. I still can't quite believe they're still making such awful engines. I think my first car, a carburated F-reg 1.3 Astra, had more poke. I guess it could loosen up with age, but not enough to make it worth it. Turbo all the way.

Being a FIAT, it probably won't last long enough to loosen up with age

Sporky · July 2018

rlw said:

Sporky said:

rlw said:

The only issue is that some of these cars are quite high geared as well, so autos can be a bit frustrating as they try to stay in the highest gear possible. mrsrlw bought a Scirocco R a few months ago and it drives me barmy, trying to be in 5th at 25 mph and 6th at 30mph.

There's usually a Sport mode on VW DSGs that makes them a bit keener - even my Alltrack has that. I normally use Eco mode for the coasting, but Sport mode for tricky junctions (it also adjusts the AWD setup to push more power to the back wheels).

You are quite correct but it has the opposite effect and hangs onto the lower gears for far too long and doesn't change up until around 3500 or more rpm. A bit of thought and they could have had one, perfect, mode.

And you are quite correct there!

More rear bias in the AWD system past 50% throttle, Sport shifts past 50% throttle, link with the GPS to see if I'm stopped at a junction, in which case Sport mode, otherwise Eco mode with coasting. And adaptive headlights all the time. And disable auto stop-start at roundabouts.

menamestom · July 2018

crunchman said:

These small engines aren't all good:
https://www.driving.co.uk/news/eco-engines-are-among-the-most-polluting-according-to-new-emissions-index/
VW have started adding particulate filters to theirs. Wait to see if other manufacturers follow suit.

Something must have already changed as the 1l ecoboost is A+ if you search on the equa index website.
Interestingly if you search under ford and put in '123' as the keyword, it brings up all the 123 bhp iterations of the 1l ecoboost engine and you can see the engine started as an 'E' and ends up A+. Also of note the A+ rating it appeared before the article, so it doesn't seem to match up.

https://equaindex.com/equa-air-quality-index/

EDIT, the 5L mustang is also A+, so I don't think getting the 1L to the same rating is a great achievement!

Rocker · July 2018

The Toyota Prius has that poke the OP is looking for. The battery kicks in when it is really needed.

Garthy · July 2018

randella said:

Another vote for small turbos, the Peugeot 1l is great, the VAG 1.4 TFSI in 150bhp tune in a Leon pulls like a train. They're refined on the motorway too.

I have a courtesy car at the moment, a Nissan Juke in poverty-spec 1.6 normally-aspirated guise. It's crap. I would take any small turbocharged unit instead in a heartbeat.

People perceive rate of change very badly, I've had a turbo car with double the torque of my N/A car and passengers would be utterly convinced that the turbo car was much, much faster especially in the mid range, the N/A car is actually faster in gear, especially in 4th and 5th.

maltingsaudio · July 2018

Turbo on my car just gone tits up £500 and counting fxxing great day... Rant over

EGR valve and VG something solenoid for those who want to know

Deadman · July 2018

I love my BMW diesel turbo. Six cylinder 3 litre 250bhp/500NM of torque. The power is unbelieveable. Notably there's no lag whatsoever.

My company car is an Insignia 2.0cdti. Goes well, around 150bhp I think, but turbo lags at low speed and you have to adjust your revs, especially when pulling out of junctions etc.

I had a 1.0t Focus on loan a while ago. Had I not known it was 1 litre it would have fooled me into thinking it was 1.6 plus.

randella · July 2018

Garthy said:

randella said:

Another vote for small turbos, the Peugeot 1l is great, the VAG 1.4 TFSI in 150bhp tune in a Leon pulls like a train. They're refined on the motorway too.

I have a courtesy car at the moment, a Nissan Juke in poverty-spec 1.6 normally-aspirated guise. It's crap. I would take any small turbocharged unit instead in a heartbeat.

People perceive rate of change very badly, I've had a turbo car with double the torque of my N/A car and passengers would be utterly convinced that the turbo car was much, much faster especially in the mid range, the N/A car is actually faster in gear, especially in 4th and 5th.

I won't deny it, but in everyday driving I like turbocharged engines - my lazy turbodiesel might only get off a dual-carriageway roundabout as quickly as an N/A petrol car with the same horsepower and half the torque, but it's a damn sight more relaxing way to do it than having to wring out every last rev.

Which I also like doing, BTW - but I'm getting old. And my commute has a *lot* of dual-carriageway roundabouts.

Sporky · July 2018

I'd also suggest that with traffic as it is, and cameras omnipresent, a car that feels faster than it is is probably better than a car that is faster than it feels.

All the perceived wooooosh without the nee-nahs and flashy blue lights spoiling it.

shaunyshaun1234 · July 2018

Sporky said:

I'd also suggest that with traffic as it is, and cameras omnipresent, a car that feels faster than it is is probably better than a car that is faster than it feels.

All the perceived wooooosh without the nee-nahs and flashy blue lights spoiling it.

And I think that's what's part of the attraction! All the power gets delivered in a sudden lump and makes the car feel faster than it actually is!

Modellista · July 2018

Garthy said:

randella said:

Another vote for small turbos, the Peugeot 1l is great, the VAG 1.4 TFSI in 150bhp tune in a Leon pulls like a train. They're refined on the motorway too.

I have a courtesy car at the moment, a Nissan Juke in poverty-spec 1.6 normally-aspirated guise. It's crap. I would take any small turbocharged unit instead in a heartbeat.

People perceive rate of change very badly, I've had a turbo car with double the torque of my N/A car and passengers would be utterly convinced that the turbo car was much, much faster especially in the mid range, the N/A car is actually faster in gear, especially in 4th and 5th.

I'm scratching my head about this. How can a car with half the torque be quicker in gear?

If the gear ratios are the same (edit: and the weights are roughly equal i.e. not an X3 v a Caterham) it simply can't be.

rlw · July 2018

Probably the weights aren't the same and the n/a car is shorter geared, and the turbo car wants will be high geared for better economy.

Axe_meister · July 2018

Partly because the initial torque in a turbo is lower until you overcome the turbo lag.

TheBigDipper · July 2018

modellista said:

A small turbo petrol is the best of all worlds for an everyday car. Petrol driveability with diesel fuel efficiency. Our 1.4 TSI Golf is not far off 10 years old now - it's never missed a beat and still feels faster than its 122bhp label. It loves to rev, but can also do 30mph in 5th if you want, just over tickover, without complaint. No diesel smell or noise. A brilliant engine for a medium size car. And the new ones have even more power for the same fuel consumption. Diesel seems like the fuel of the past now.

+1 for this. I'm on my second Golf 1.4 litre TSi (6 speed manual) and both of them have been great. Economical when pootling around but pretty quick when driven harder - although clearly isn't the sporty package that a GTi is re suspension, etc.

PC_Dave · July 2018

Having said all that, my wife’s 1.2 turbo Nissans Juke doesn’t actually give better fuel economy than my 3.0 turbo BMW....

RaymondLin · July 2018

My car has a turbo, economical it is not. Lol

Sporky · July 2018

PC_Dave said:

Having said all that, my wife’s 1.2 turbo Nissans Juke doesn’t actually give better fuel economy than my 3.0 turbo BMW....

Is she trying to keep up with you?

It's pretty much inescapable that to develop a given amount of power you have to burn a related amount of fuel. The advantage turbos have is that they have small engine economy off boost (which is how the last official test operated), but lots more torque and power on boost.

There was a comparison video some years back of a smallish turbo petrol hatchback hooning it around a track, and an NA 911 sitting just behind; the 911 got marginally better fuel economy. Put them both on a normal commute and it'd be the other way around, by a much, much bigger margin.

PC_Dave · July 2018

Sporky said:

PC_Dave said:

Having said all that, my wife’s 1.2 turbo Nissans Juke doesn’t actually give better fuel economy than my 3.0 turbo BMW....

Is she trying to keep up with you?

It's pretty much inescapable that to develop a given amount of power you have to burn a related amount of fuel. The advantage turbos have is that they have small engine economy off boost (which is how the last official test operated), but lots more torque and power on boost.

There was a comparison video some years back of a smallish turbo petrol hatchback hooning it around a track, and an NA 911 sitting just behind; the 911 got marginally better fuel economy. Put them both on a normal commute and it'd be the other way around, by a much, much bigger margin.

Nope. On my everyday commute, using both cars in exactly the same manner, the smaller “more economical” car is less economical over a 4 week period.

stickyfiddle · July 2018

Sporky said:

I'd also suggest that with traffic as it is, and cameras omnipresent, a car that feels faster than it is is probably better than a car that is faster than it feels.

All the perceived wooooosh without the nee-nahs and flashy blue lights spoiling it.

Wis for that. It's why I maintain the MX5 is still the perfect sportscar because it's virtually the only one that gets really fun before it gets really illegal.

We had a Megane Sport something-something rental in Australia - 250-ish bhp iirc. It was MENTAL out of roundabouts, but put your foot down for more than 3 seconds and you're going way faster than you need to be and you have to back off again. It also torque-steered like buggery which I guess feels quite "wild" if you're new to driving quick stuff but also isn't actually a good thing.

On the DSG/Auto etc thing, my Golf's DSG is pretty good - I use normal mode most of the time and Sport for overtakes. The BMW system is very good based on a 4-series we had recently. In normal use you leave in full auto most of the time, then hit the downshift paddle if you want to kick it down for overtaking (or tunnels

), and it then stays in manual/paddle mode until you haven't changed gear for ~1min, at which point it goes back to manual, and will obviously take over the up/down shifts earlier if you're pushing the top or bottom of the rev range but don't change yourself. I was very impressed with it, though it also helped that it was a 430i with 250bhp. That's way more than you need to have fun..

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