Patriotism

MagicPigDetective · July 2018

It was not my intention to start a debate about the merits of the Welsh language; to be honest I find it difficult to do rationally because it's tied up with strong emotions. It's here for now whether we like it or not and I'm doing my best to preserve it by passing it on to my children. I was trying to express my personal idea of patriotism, and to show that within the UK, there is a wide diversity of how we identify with the UK state. I identify myself as Welsh, and not British, and my first language is a large part of my identity. I would never say someone is less Welsh as the don't' speak the language, as that is plainly ridiculous. Welsh identity is a complex matter born out of your life experiences; even among Welsh speakers, we are not one united group as there are many differing opinions, attitudes and identities within it. Interesting points p90fool and of course I understand the other side of the coin. I was raised in mid-wales where the language is not prominent and I was sometimes ashamed or embarrassed to speak it openly, yet now I have a positive attitude to the value of preserving languages, everywhere. To me they are more than a transaction for business, each language is a different way of looking at and seeing the world and should be treasured.

sev112 · July 2018

Be proud of everything
dont fear anything
Dont think we are ever better than anyone else

me, I’ll cheer and support anyone who is nice to me whatever gene type they derive from when the Big Bang happened.

Heartfeltdawn · July 2018

Fretwired said:
I don't get this ... my father's family are from Wales, my mother's and my wife's from Scotland and I was born in England.

celentium · July 2018

Sounds bladdy stu-ped to me

Fretwired · July 2018

MagicPigDetective said:

It was not my intention to start a debate about the merits of the Welsh language; to be honest I find it difficult to do rationally because it's tied up with strong emotions. It's here for now whether we like it or not and I'm doing my best to preserve it by passing it on to my children. I was trying to express my personal idea of patriotism, and to show that within the UK, there is a wide diversity of how we identify with the UK state. I identify myself as Welsh, and not British, and my first language is a large part of my identity. I would never say someone is less Welsh as the don't' speak the language, as that is plainly ridiculous. Welsh identity is a complex matter born out of your life experiences; even among Welsh speakers, we are not one united group as there are many differing opinions, attitudes and identities within it. Interesting points p90fool and of course I understand the other side of the coin. I was raised in mid-wales where the language is not prominent and I was sometimes ashamed or embarrassed to speak it openly, yet now I have a positive attitude to the value of preserving languages, everywhere. To me they are more than a transaction for business, each language is a different way of looking at and seeing the world and should be treasured.

You haven't. Nothing wrong with speaking Welsh or wanting to preserve it and Welsh culture in general. As I have written elsewhere I don't think Britishness exits. I just wish we'd bin the concept. Let people celebrate the fact they're Welsh, Scottish, English, Irish, Polish or whatever. Britain is just a construct that in my opinion doesn't work every well these days. Lets celebrate out different cultures .. I'm sure we'd all get on better.

underdog · July 2018

Fretwired said:

MagicPigDetective said:

It was not my intention to start a debate about the merits of the Welsh language; to be honest I find it difficult to do rationally because it's tied up with strong emotions. It's here for now whether we like it or not and I'm doing my best to preserve it by passing it on to my children. I was trying to express my personal idea of patriotism, and to show that within the UK, there is a wide diversity of how we identify with the UK state. I identify myself as Welsh, and not British, and my first language is a large part of my identity. I would never say someone is less Welsh as the don't' speak the language, as that is plainly ridiculous. Welsh identity is a complex matter born out of your life experiences; even among Welsh speakers, we are not one united group as there are many differing opinions, attitudes and identities within it. Interesting points p90fool and of course I understand the other side of the coin. I was raised in mid-wales where the language is not prominent and I was sometimes ashamed or embarrassed to speak it openly, yet now I have a positive attitude to the value of preserving languages, everywhere. To me they are more than a transaction for business, each language is a different way of looking at and seeing the world and should be treasured.

You haven't. Nothing wrong with speaking Welsh or wanting to preserve it and Welsh culture in general. As I have written elsewhere I don't think Britishness exits. I just wish we'd bin the concept. Let people celebrate the fact their Welsh, Scottish, English, Irish, Polish or whatever. Britain is just a construct that in my opinion doesn't work every well these days. Lets celebrate out different cultures .. I'm sure we'd all get on better.

Hard to disagree with that, let people be who they are, and be proud of it. I do sense being proud of being English often comes across to people as a bit EDL where as being proud of being Scottish, Welsh or Irish is expected, I'm not sure why but that is a shame.

@MagicPigDetective you sound like the welshman I wish I was, I'm very proud of being Welsh, and consider myself Welsh not British but do often feel a bit of a fraud in that I don't speak to the language at all.

MagicPigDetective · July 2018

Fretwired said:

MagicPigDetective said:

It was not my intention to start a debate about the merits of the Welsh language; to be honest I find it difficult to do rationally because it's tied up with strong emotions. It's here for now whether we like it or not and I'm doing my best to preserve it by passing it on to my children. I was trying to express my personal idea of patriotism, and to show that within the UK, there is a wide diversity of how we identify with the UK state. I identify myself as Welsh, and not British, and my first language is a large part of my identity. I would never say someone is less Welsh as the don't' speak the language, as that is plainly ridiculous. Welsh identity is a complex matter born out of your life experiences; even among Welsh speakers, we are not one united group as there are many differing opinions, attitudes and identities within it. Interesting points p90fool and of course I understand the other side of the coin. I was raised in mid-wales where the language is not prominent and I was sometimes ashamed or embarrassed to speak it openly, yet now I have a positive attitude to the value of preserving languages, everywhere. To me they are more than a transaction for business, each language is a different way of looking at and seeing the world and should be treasured.

You haven't. Nothing wrong with speaking Welsh or wanting to preserve it and Welsh culture in general. As I have written elsewhere I don't think Britishness exits. I just wish we'd bin the concept. Let people celebrate the fact their Welsh, Scottish, English, Irish, Polish or whatever. Britain is just a construct that in my opinion doesn't work every well these days. Lets celebrate out different cultures .. I'm sure we'd all get on better.

Agree with you completely.

IvanMC · July 2018

Well, I'll deviate a bit from this and get back to the original idea for a while: I've noticed widespread ignorance in the Americans. Their fiercely patriotic shite may have to do with the fact that they really believe they've been the chosen ones (by God)... mention Kenya and they think it's a kind of trademark or label. Mention Argentina or Brazil and they think it's a city somewhere in Central or South America. Mention New Zealand and they stare at you totally baffled. Say their government might be dishonest ans they might slaughter you. Massive etc. Mention Australia and they do know it's a country but don't remember its exact location (in Europe, indeed). Ignorance is bliss.

Chalky · July 2018

IvanMC said:

Well, I'll deviate a bit from this and get back to the original idea for a while: I've noticed widespread ignorance in the Americans. Their fiercely patriotic shite may have to do with the fact that they really believe they've been the chosen ones (by God)... mention Kenya and they think it's a kind of trademark or label. Mention Argentina or Brazil and they think it's a city somewhere in Central or South America. Mention New Zealand and they stare at you totally baffled. Say their government might be dishonest ans they might slaughter you. Massive etc. Mention Australia and they do know it's a country but don't remember its exact location (in Europe, indeed). Ignorance is bliss.

Over the course of a week I talk to about thirty of them dotted over the US, from Seattle down to California, across through Texas and up through several states up to New York and surrounding states. They are not in any way ignorant. Nor do they believe they are chosen by God - are you mixing up your Jews with your Americans?

Ignorance is believing the stereotypes you read about on the internet.

IvanMC · July 2018

Ok, I did generalise and stand corrected. However, I've had the experience in the flesh and actually hashed out these differences openly, vocally and in a friendly way: many of them are definitely not good at Geography. Or if you were to mention that there might exist a connection between Central (or even South) American poverty and the American governments they get all huffy. But yeah, I do apologise since I did generalise and indeed I've met lots of great American lads and lasses.

Sporky · July 2018

I consider myself British rather than English. One Welsh grandfather, one Scottish...

Bridgehouse · July 2018

Sporky said:

I consider myself British rather than English. One Welsh grandfather, one Scottish...

That explains a lot

Chalky · July 2018

Bridgehouse said:

Sporky said:

I consider myself British rather than English. One Welsh grandfather, one Scottish...

That explains a lot

Don't worry, we are all mongrels.

Sporky · July 2018

Bridgehouse said:

Sporky said:

I consider myself British rather than English. One Welsh grandfather, one Scottish...

That explains a lot

One mean Northern grandmother, the other a Londoner who didn't so much survive the blitz as stand outside every night swearing at the Luftwaffe and throwing bricks at passing V-bombs.

Little wonder, then, that I ooze pure liquid awesome from every pore. When I drive in the country, the rabbits, stoats and weasels rush from the hedgerows to line the road, doff their caps and salute, saying "Oh me, oh my, how privileged we are to see Lord Sporky pass. His mere proximity honours us and brings a little sparkle and razzmatazz into our humdrum lives!".

I wear a cape everyday and have my own theme tune which plays whenever I enter a room. It's like a mashup of the Imperial Death March and the theme from Street Hawk, but with more cymbals. A lot more cymbals.

Bridgehouse · July 2018

Sporky said:

Bridgehouse said:

Sporky said:

I consider myself British rather than English. One Welsh grandfather, one Scottish...

That explains a lot

One mean Northern grandmother, the other a Londoner who didn't so much survive the blitz as stand outside every night swearing at the Luftwaffe and throwing bricks at passing V-bombs.

Little wonder, then, that I ooze pure liquid awesome from every pore. When I drive in the country, the rabbits, stoats and weasels rush from the hedgerows to line the road, doff their caps and salute, saying "Oh me, oh my, how privileged we are to see Lord Sporky pass. His mere proximity honours us and brings a little sparkle and razzmatazz into our humdrum lives!".

I wear a cape everyday and have my own theme tune which plays whenever I enter a room. It's like a mashup of the Imperial Death March and the theme from Street Hawk, but with more cymbals. A lot more cymbals.

Personally, I always thought your modesty was your most redeeming feature.

Sporky · July 2018

Bridgehouse said:

Personally, I always thought your modesty was your most redeeming feature.

It's certainly up there with my many other outstanding qualities.

Bridgehouse · July 2018

Sporky said:

Bridgehouse said:

Personally, I always thought your modesty was your most redeeming feature.

It's certainly up there with my many other outstanding qualities.

Indeed, right the way up there...

darthed1981 · July 2018

Sporky said:

Bridgehouse said:

Sporky said:

I consider myself British rather than English. One Welsh grandfather, one Scottish...

That explains a lot

One mean Northern grandmother, the other a Londoner who didn't so much survive the blitz as stand outside every night swearing at the Luftwaffe and throwing bricks at passing V-bombs.

Little wonder, then, that I ooze pure liquid awesome from every pore. When I drive in the country, the rabbits, stoats and weasels rush from the hedgerows to line the road, doff their caps and salute, saying "Oh me, oh my, how privileged we are to see Lord Sporky pass. His mere proximity honours us and brings a little sparkle and razzmatazz into our humdrum lives!".

I wear a cape everyday and have my own theme tune which plays whenever I enter a room. It's like a mashup of the Imperial Death March and the theme from Street Hawk, but with more cymbals. A lot more cymbals.

Can I buy some pot from you...?

Sporky · July 2018

No; I have no spare cooking equipment and make regular use of all my pots and pans.

MagicPigDetective · July 2018

underdog said:

Fretwired said:

MagicPigDetective said:

It was not my intention to start a debate about the merits of the Welsh language; to be honest I find it difficult to do rationally because it's tied up with strong emotions. It's here for now whether we like it or not and I'm doing my best to preserve it by passing it on to my children. I was trying to express my personal idea of patriotism, and to show that within the UK, there is a wide diversity of how we identify with the UK state. I identify myself as Welsh, and not British, and my first language is a large part of my identity. I would never say someone is less Welsh as the don't' speak the language, as that is plainly ridiculous. Welsh identity is a complex matter born out of your life experiences; even among Welsh speakers, we are not one united group as there are many differing opinions, attitudes and identities within it. Interesting points p90fool and of course I understand the other side of the coin. I was raised in mid-wales where the language is not prominent and I was sometimes ashamed or embarrassed to speak it openly, yet now I have a positive attitude to the value of preserving languages, everywhere. To me they are more than a transaction for business, each language is a different way of looking at and seeing the world and should be treasured.

You haven't. Nothing wrong with speaking Welsh or wanting to preserve it and Welsh culture in general. As I have written elsewhere I don't think Britishness exits. I just wish we'd bin the concept. Let people celebrate the fact their Welsh, Scottish, English, Irish, Polish or whatever. Britain is just a construct that in my opinion doesn't work every well these days. Lets celebrate out different cultures .. I'm sure we'd all get on better.

Hard to disagree with that, let people be who they are, and be proud of it. I do sense being proud of being English often comes across to people as a bit EDL where as being proud of being Scottish, Welsh or Irish is expected, I'm not sure why but that is a shame.

@MagicPigDetective you sound like the welshman I wish I was, I'm very proud of being Welsh, and consider myself Welsh not British but do often feel a bit of a fraud in that I don't speak to the language at all.

No need to feel like that @underdog your a proud Welshman, and as we learnt from Euro 2016, we are #strongertogether

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