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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11414
    Who will England pick as their spinner(s) against India?  Bess not in the Somerset team in the current CC match.

    Saw a newspaper article suggesting a recall for Rashid, but difficult when he refuses to play first class cricket for Yorkshire.  Not sure I'd trust him to bowl 30 or 40 overs when he hasn't bowled more than 10 for ages.

    Leach is back for Somerset, so I guess he's in pole position.

    Good news on the fast bowling front.  Jamie Overton is back for Somerset and took 4 wickets today.
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  • CabbageCatCabbageCat Frets: 5549
    Gassage said:
    Had the huge fun of playing at Hove yesterday for the Sussex Invitation XI v Lords Tavs

    Got a wicket coming down the hill- (former Eng bat Chris Adams, seen below contemplating his suicide method after his dismissal)  many members said that the sight of Gassage in full flow was reminiscent of Imran in his pomp. #whiteImmie

    What a lovely day topped off by the trad visit to the Kebab Shop at 1am.




    Pan round to the right another 20 degrees and you'll see my seat for the T20s this season. 

    Don't recognise your kebab shop though. 
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  • NiteflyNitefly Frets: 4902
    edited July 2018
    I was going through some of my late dad's stuff today.  For a long time he was a member at Lancs CCC, and I found he'd been using his 1998 fixture list as a bookmark.

    Fascinating to see the comps they were in: Brittanic Assurance Championship, AXA Life League, Benson & Hedges Cup (!), NatWest Trophy.

    Cornhill Insurance Test match (3rd of 5) against South Africa (could that have been one of the first post-apartheid?), Texaco Trophy ODI vs SA.

    I wonder how many of those sponsors are still with us?

    *edit* the season ran from 17th April to 20th September!

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  • NiteflyNitefly Frets: 4902
    And the Cat came back!  Welcome back, @CabbageCat ; :)
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22097
    crunchman said:
    Who will England pick as their spinner(s) against India?  Bess not in the Somerset team in the current CC match.

    Saw a newspaper article suggesting a recall for Rashid, but difficult when he refuses to play first class cricket for Yorkshire.  Not sure I'd trust him to bowl 30 or 40 overs when he hasn't bowled more than 10 for ages.

    Leach is back for Somerset, so I guess he's in pole position.

    Good news on the fast bowling front.  Jamie Overton is back for Somerset and took 4 wickets today.

    With Bess not playing against Worcs and Leach not really hitting his straps yet (a friend of mine was at the Worcs game for two days, said he bowled OK without looking at his best: also said Moeen bowled very tidily), then I'd be doing everything I could to get Adil Rashid into that squad. No he won't bowl you 30 or 40 overs and nor should anyone try to make him bowl like that. What I've liked about Rashid this year has been a bit more zip on his leg break. 

    Cook
    Jennings
    Root
    Malan
    Stokes
    Bairstow
    Buttler
    Rashid - if not him, then Leach 
    Moeen
    Anderson
    Broad

    Yes I'm going two spinners with the way the weather has been and assuming Stokes is fully fit. 




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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11414

    What kind of bowler is Porter?  Is he another 83mph trundle, or can he get it through a bit?

    Sounds like a bit of a fudge on Rashid.  Here's what Cricinfo quoted from Ed Smith:

    "Before the selection meeting, Adil had confirmed his availability to play Test cricket for England for whole of this summer and the upcoming winter tours to Sri Lanka and West Indies," Smith said. "Adil fully understands that if he wishes to be eligible for Test cricket in the 2019 season, he must have a county contract to play four-day cricket. Moving forward, England Test players must be committed to the county championship."

    He probably is our best fit spinner but something doesn't sit right about it.

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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22097
    Jamie Porter is two things: fit and in alright form.

    Finn and Wood are injured, Woakes isn't Test match ready yet and we saw how ineffective when he was undercooked after injury last year, TRJ isn't playing this season, Craig Overton seemingly isn't considered good enough for a frontline slot, Jamie Overton hasn't played enough cricket and stayed fit enough to be considered for a 5 day match, and it would appear that the selectors don't fancy Ben Coad yet. 

    Porter isn't outright quick but he is what I'd call a seamer with some nip to him. Consistent, doesn't ten to spray it around. 

    Rashid on form is our best spinner. The problem really comes in that he will miss T20 games for Yorkshire when he's on a white-ball contract. That stuffs up Yorkshire's plans and shows what a complete mess the fixture list is. Imagine, all this sun and slow bowlers aren't bowling long spells because the list is dominated by two hour cricket. 

    ALso important to remember that part of the reason for the fixture list being so T20 dominated right now is because the powers that be felt players struggled switching between T20 and CC cricket, yet here we are having two Test selections this summer coming on the back of limited overs cricket success. 



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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11414

    Given how brown and abrasive the outfields are likely to be, we need fast bowlers who can get reverse swing.  Is that all going to be on Stokes?

    Admittedly, with Wood not fit, I can't think of anyone who could fit the bill.

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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 11262
    crunchman said:

    Given how brown and abrasive the outfields are likely to be, we need fast bowlers who can get reverse swing.  Is that all going to be on Stokes?

    Admittedly, with Wood not fit, I can't think of anyone who could fit the bill.

    It wasn't th\t long ago that we were bemoaning the lack of decent spinners. Now we don't seem to be able to produce quicks who can bowl more than a couple of spells without breaking down for the season.

    You have to ask, what's going on?
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11414
    scrumhalf said:
    crunchman said:

    Given how brown and abrasive the outfields are likely to be, we need fast bowlers who can get reverse swing.  Is that all going to be on Stokes?

    Admittedly, with Wood not fit, I can't think of anyone who could fit the bill.

    It wasn't th\t long ago that we were bemoaning the lack of decent spinners. Now we don't seem to be able to produce quicks who can bowl more than a couple of spells without breaking down for the season.

    You have to ask, what's going on?


    Lack of decent spinners is still an issue.  If it wasn't, we wouldn't be picking a guy with a test bowling average of 42.8, who hasn't bowled a spell of more than 10 overs for a very long time.

    What happens when Anderson eventually loses his zip I dread to think.

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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22097
    crunchman said:

    Given how brown and abrasive the outfields are likely to be, we need fast bowlers who can get reverse swing.  Is that all going to be on Stokes?

    Admittedly, with Wood not fit, I can't think of anyone who could fit the bill.

    They're not all brown and abrasive. Check out Lords pictured yesterday, Trent Bridge during Notts-Surrey, and Joe Root bowling in the Roses match. Definitely not like the 1976 outfields against the Windies :)

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Di8moF_W4AAyIz9.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Di32ViSXoAA5LGb.jpg:large

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Di3L1qAXcAAm8Ni.jpg:large

    Jimmy can reverse it, Stokes as well. Use them in short bursts, should be OK. 



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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22097
    scrumhalf said:
    crunchman said:

    Given how brown and abrasive the outfields are likely to be, we need fast bowlers who can get reverse swing.  Is that all going to be on Stokes?

    Admittedly, with Wood not fit, I can't think of anyone who could fit the bill.

    It wasn't th\t long ago that we were bemoaning the lack of decent spinners. Now we don't seem to be able to produce quicks who can bowl more than a couple of spells without breaking down for the season.

    You have to ask, what's going on?
    Personally, and I say this without a shred of science behind it, I think there's too much emphasis put on gym conditioning and not enough on bowling. Going through some county academy stuff this week, it was striking how many young bowlers in the 16-18 bracket talk of how they want to bulk up to get some more pace. The wrong type of bulking too soon doesn't help you: Simon Jones in his book talks of how he got too much into the gym after the knee injuries and made himself too heavy for a time, when he really should have been looking to lighten the load on his knees and ankles. 






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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11414
    Cook out already.  Watch the others play one day wafts and we'll be all out for 230 when we should be making 430.
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 11262
    It wouldn't be summer without an England middle-order collapse.

    :p
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11414
    scrumhalf said:
    It wouldn't be summer without 5 England middle-order collapses.

    :p
    FTFY
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 2393
    Just got back from a very long day out at Edgbaston with child #1.

    I thought the place would be packed for the first day of the series, but in the event it was only just over half full, and the atmosphere felt pretty flat. And every time we go they seem to find new ways of bombarding us with advertising, which gets old fast.

    Root and Bairstow looked several cuts above all the other batsmen. Cook got what looked like a ripper from Ashwin, Jennings was unlucky but hadn't looked in amazing touch. Some pretty soft dismissals further down the order. Interestingly Adil Rashid got a big round of applause when he walked out to bat.

    Dunno why they didn't pick Moeen, I'd have gone with him and Porter in place of Curran and Malan.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11414
    Stuckfast said:


    Dunno why they didn't pick Moeen, I'd have gone with him and Porter in place of Curran and Malan.

    I'd probably have done the same.  Moeen actually has a better test batting average than Malan.   Overall, I think Malan is a slightly better batsman, but the extra bowling options Moeen gives would more than make up for it.  I suppose the argument against it is that Root can bowl quite competent offspin.  He's got 19 test wickets, and he's in good form at the moment.  He took 4 for 5 for Yorkshire against Lancashire last week.

    If you did play Moeen, you then have a 6 man attack.  In that circumstance I'd have been tempted to take a punt on Jamie Overton over Porter to get a bit more pace.  Overton took 8 wickets for Somerset in the match against Worcestershire last week, and bowled a decent number of overs.   He's also quite a handy lower order batsman.

    Ultimately, whatever team you pick, they have to bat better.  Cook got a good ball early on, but most of the others got out to pretty innocuous balls.

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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11414

    Changing the subject slightly, has anyone seen this shambles:

    https://www.ecb.co.uk/england/men/news/789984/ecb-reveals-the-nation-s-best-ever-england-men-s-test-xi

    I know it's voted for by a fan poll, but how can any sensible person think that 5 of the best 11 players ever to play for England have played in the last 15 years?  2 of those players wouldn't even make the best England team of my lifetime.

    If anyone is interested, the best England team of my lifetime would be:

    Gooch, Boycott, Stewart, Gower, Pietersen, Botham, Flintoff, Knott, Swann, Anderson, Willis


    My reasoning:

    Boycott over Cook/Atherton:  Cook has padded his stats with big scores on flat wickets.  For me Boycott is more likely to get runs on a difficult pitch against good bowling.  Atherton's stats aren't great because of his back problems later in his career, but in mid-90s form he's close as well.

    Stewart at 3:  England haven't had great number 3s in my lifetime but we have had a lot of good openers.  A number 3 needs an opener's technique in case a wicket falls early, but needs to be able to open up and attack as well.  Stewart fits the bill best.  His headline average isn't great, but that was dragged down by playing as a keeper.  He averaged 46 when playing as a batsman.  That match in Barbados in 1994 when he made centuries in both innings against Ambrose and Walsh showed how good he was.

    Gower over Thorpe  I did think about Thorpe as a left hander.  His average is similar to Gower, but I think Gower shades it.  If nothing else, Gower was a better fielder before his shoulder went.

    Pietersen over Root.  Very close, and in a year or two's time I might go the other way.

    Knott as keeper.  I'm a bit young to properly remember Knott at his peak, but I do have memories of him making a century.  When playing as a keeper, Stewarts batting isn't significantly better so even if I didn't pick Stewart at 3, Knott is a no brainer.  Stewart averaged 34 when playing as keeper and Knott averaged 32 in an era when averages were generally lower.  Knott could bat when it mattered.  In the 74/75 Ashes down under when we were obliterated by Lillee and Thomson, Knott top scored in 5 of England's innings in the series.

    Swann over Underwood. I can remember Underwood, but not at his best.  If you look at his home record from 1976 onwards his figures were awful.

    Willis over various others.  Was tempted by Simon Jones, or Gough.  In the end, I figured that Jones didn't do it for long enough, and you already have two swing bowlers in Anderson and Botham.

    For me, Cook and Root don't even make the best England team of my lifetime.  Both of them could still change that, but in an all time team you have to consider the likes of Hobbs, Hammond, Grace, Barrington, Barnes, Laker and Verity.  That ECB team is a joke.  You could pick a team of players that they left out that would beat it more times than not.

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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 2393
    It's a bit of a daft exercise really. I mean, what grounds do we have for comparing say Broad and Anderson with Tyson and Trueman? Was Jim Laker a better bowler than Swann? Would Jack Hobbs have made runs in this day and age?

    I do think Root is a better batsman than Stewart ever was though. Stewart only makes it into my XI if he keeps.
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