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Why would anyone buy a vinyl playing setup?

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  • Philly_QPhilly_Q Frets: 22515
    You still have Tower Records...?
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    I like sampling from vinyl records but I don’t get nostalgic for the olde days.
    We have a bunch of different playback technologies here.
    I’ve got a couple of portable, waterproof bluetooth speakers, one stays in the shower so I can listen to the news in the morning, and one that is used outside.

    One Sonos box in the dining room for dinner music.
    A Denon A.V. receiver with B&W speakers in this living room connected to the TV.
    I have a turntable in the studio for sampling and some killer Kii Three monitors, I do all of my critical listenning in that room too.
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  • robertyroberty Frets: 10893
    As soon as you buy music because of the format in comes in, you've lost.

    Good streaming playback is more than adequate for most listening situations, and I'll wager pretty much no-one here would be able to tell the difference between high-end digital sources (ie. CDs or lossless streaming) and high-end analogue sources (ie. vinyl).

    It's another hipster-led fad, encouraged by the music industry as it's another revenue stream for them.

    Bah!
    256kbps MP3 is audibly transparent in controlled conditions on reference grade equipment:

    http://www.music.mcgill.ca/~hockman/documents/Pras_presentation2009.pdf

    Spotify is 320kbps OGG and Apple Music is 256kbps AAC.  Neither format introduces audible distortion

    Vinyl playback introduces harmonic distortion as well as background noise, surface noise noise and pitch instability, and the stereo separation will only be between 20 and 30dB depending on the cartridge used.  It can still sound bloody magnificent, it's one of the few areas in audio where you get what you pay for (to a point) (the other being speakers)

    Disclaimer: I have a record collection, because I like having a collection and I like supporting the artists and industry.  I'm more likely to sit through a whole album if I put a record on, sometimes I'll flip it a few times and listen more than once
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  • robertyroberty Frets: 10893
    The physicality of the medium and the specific equipment required to play it is a perfect complement to streaming, that's what has led its rise in popularity I think.

    Having said that, the so-called revival is just 157,000 people spending £400 per year:

    http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2018/05/the-vinyl-revival-is-just-a-few-blokes-buying-everything/
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  • As soon as you buy music because of the format in comes in, you've lost.

    Good streaming playback is more than adequate for most listening situations, and I'll wager pretty much no-one here would be able to tell the difference between high-end digital sources (ie. CDs or lossless streaming) and high-end analogue sources (ie. vinyl).

    It's another hipster-led fad, encouraged by the music industry as it's another revenue stream for them.

    Bah!
    And that depends entirely on the mastering. The majority of my record collection was made during the eighties or nineties and almost all of it sounds significantly better on vinyl. More bass extension, more sparkle, more detail. All of the things that we were promised would sound better on CD, you might say. The sort of thing that anyone could pick out in a double-blind test. At a guess, I'd say it was because there just wasn't the wealth of experience in mastering for digital back then. Certainly, I have some early CDs where there is awful digital clipping on them!

    I have recent releases where the opposite is true, and again, probably down to mastering for digital having been, ahem, mastered, with the experience for mastering vinyl being lost over time.

    People talk about the pops and crackles on vinyl but on a good TT, with well-cared for records, you barely notice.
    My wife asked me to stop singing Wonderwall.
    I said maybe.....
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  • Yes, I agree, good vinyl sounds better than badly mastered CDs.

    But, you know, that was 30 years ago.

    They've sort of got the hang of mastering these days, and that's no longer a valid argument.
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  • GagarynGagaryn Frets: 1553
    Yes, I agree, good vinyl sounds better than badly mastered CDs.

    But, you know, that was 30 years ago.

    They've sort of got the hang of mastering these days, and that's no longer a valid argument.
    ...and forgotten how to master vinyl, the folk that knew how to have all retired. I buy vinyl but I am disappointed with a lot of recent presses.
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  • lasermonkeylasermonkey Frets: 1940
    edited November 2018
    Yes, I agree, good vinyl sounds better than badly mastered CDs.

    But, you know, that was 30 years ago.

    They've sort of got the hang of mastering these days, and that's no longer a valid argument.
    Well, it is for older albums that haven't been remastered for CD. People still listen to that stuff, y'know.
    And then there's the recent stuff that was brickwall-limited for digital. You can't overmodulate vinyl, so there's still a few records that arguably sound better, or at least more natural.
    There's room for both analogue and digital.
    My wife asked me to stop singing Wonderwall.
    I said maybe.....
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  • At its best, it sounds like no other format:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D4iEPU3uVDg&t=186s
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  • sweepysweepy Frets: 4158
    edited November 2018
    I'd love my old Linn, Leak Stereo20  Radford SC22 setup back, practicalities and house moves etc etc
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    edited November 2018
    Like @Roberty says, the other delight is the upgradeability of record replay and the incremental benefits each upgrade gives you in sound. With each upgrade you hear more from the recording, and it also becomes more and more realistic and listenable-to, which is amazing. Sometimes you think it couldn’t be improved upon and then it just is. I can listen to my records for hours and hours, it’s just so enjoyable.

    For me the ONLY downside is the inconvenience, and I have just taken a decision not to mind that. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27569
    Yes, I agree, good vinyl sounds better than badly mastered CDs.
    And good CD sounds better than bad vinyl.

    Frankly all that says is that good is better than bad. 
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • HattigolHattigol Frets: 8175
    Vinyl is not quite as handy for listening in the car.

    Then again, my current car doesn't have a CD player, just a USB port. What the hell's that about?
    "Anybody can play. The note is only 20%. The attitude of the motherf*cker who plays it is  80%" - Miles Davis
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71950
    roberty said:

    Having said that, the so-called revival is just 157,000 people spending £400 per year:

    http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2018/05/the-vinyl-revival-is-just-a-few-blokes-buying-everything/
    That confirms what I expected. That doesn’t mean that anyone who likes vinyl or prefers the sound of it is wrong, but it isn’t the revival it’s being made out to be - there are probably the same sort of number of people still using film cameras. (Just guessing, I have no idea - but it's the same sort of niche hobby format now.)

    I'm much more surprised about the small number of Blu-Ray buyers.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • viz said:
    Like @Roberty says, the other delight is the upgradeability of record replay and the incremental benefits each upgrade gives you in sound. With each upgrade you hear more from the recording, and it also becomes more and more realistic and listenable-to, which is amazing. Sometimes you think it couldn’t be improved upon and then it just is. I can listen to my records for hours and hours, it’s just so enjoyable.

    For me the ONLY downside is the inconvenience, and I have just taken a decision not to mind that. 
    "upgradeability of record replay"

    "
    With each upgrade you hear more from the recording"

    It's almost as if it was shit to start with ;)
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  • Sporky said:
    Yes, I agree, good vinyl sounds better than badly mastered CDs.
    And good CD sounds better than bad vinyl.

    Frankly all that says is that good is better than bad. 
    Exactly my point.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    edited November 2018
    viz said:
    Like @Roberty says, the other delight is the upgradeability of record replay and the incremental benefits each upgrade gives you in sound. With each upgrade you hear more from the recording, and it also becomes more and more realistic and listenable-to, which is amazing. Sometimes you think it couldn’t be improved upon and then it just is. I can listen to my records for hours and hours, it’s just so enjoyable.

    For me the ONLY downside is the inconvenience, and I have just taken a decision not to mind that. 
    "upgradeability of record replay"

    "With each upgrade you hear more from the recording"

    It's almost as if it was shit to start with
    Ha touché, yes and you can spend A LOT to make it really amazing. BUT the improvements definitely suffer from diminishing returns, so that’s not inconsistent with the medium sounding quite good with an initial relatively modest investment! - much like guitars, amps and boutique pedals I guess. 

    I think the minimum I’d go for, to make it sound good enough, would be a rega planar 3 and rb300 tonearm or similar, a denon DL-103 cartridge, and a ProJect phonobox, which would cost 300 (2nd hand) + 175 + 90 = less than 600 quid. That is a lot of money obviously but only twice as much as a good-ish CD player. And the components tend to hold their value. 

    From then on, the sky’s the limit. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • robertyroberty Frets: 10893
    viz said:
    viz said:
    Like @Roberty says, the other delight is the upgradeability of record replay and the incremental benefits each upgrade gives you in sound. With each upgrade you hear more from the recording, and it also becomes more and more realistic and listenable-to, which is amazing. Sometimes you think it couldn’t be improved upon and then it just is. I can listen to my records for hours and hours, it’s just so enjoyable.

    For me the ONLY downside is the inconvenience, and I have just taken a decision not to mind that. 
    "upgradeability of record replay"

    "With each upgrade you hear more from the recording"

    It's almost as if it was shit to start with
    Ha touché, yes and you can spend A LOT to make it really amazing. BUT the improvements definitely suffer from diminishing returns, so it’s actually quite good with an initial relatively modest investment! - much like guitars, amps and boutique pedals I guess. 

    I think the minimum I’d go for, to make it sound good enough, would be a rega planar 3 and rb300 tonearm or similar, a denon DL-103 cartridge, and a ProJect phonobox, which would cost 300 (2nd hand) + 175 + 90 = less than 600 quid. That is a lot of money obviously but only twice as much as a good-ish CD player. And the components tend to hold their value. 

    From then on, the sky’s the limit. 
    That's the hobby side of it. Collecting and listening to records is a hobby. I'm sure we can all relate to that :-)
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    ^ totes. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • roberty said:
    That's the hobby side of it. Collecting and listening to records is a hobby. I'm sure we can all relate to that :-)

    There's nothing wrong with having a hobby, or enjoying records, etc. but please spare me the "vinyl is better than digital" crap. :)

    R.
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