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Why would anyone buy a vinyl playing setup?

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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    edited November 2018
    octatonic said:
    And the progressive deterioration of the vinyl surface over use! 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • RobDaviesRobDavies Frets: 3062
    I tried with vinyl.... bought a Rega Planar 3 and a Rega Elys 2 cartridge.   Sounds pretty good but it's all so bloody inconvenient.  
    Even more inconvenient is when your favourite artists insist on releasing everything as a double album, meaning you have to change sides every two songs. 

    Decent quality second hand vinyl is expensive, too. 

    Infact, if anyone wants to buy the above set up, pm me....
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
    viz said:
    octatonic said:
    And the progressive deterioration of the vinyl surface over use! 
    re:OP - combination of Fashion and Fetish.
    Imagine something sharp and witty here ......

    Feedback
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  • munckeemunckee Frets: 12253
    THE FINAL WORD: DOWNLOADS DON'T HAVE A COVER YOU CAN SKIN UP ON
    No but the size phone screens are getting now you can skin up on those.
    tablets, yes. maybe a smartphone but IMO that's as fiddly as a CD case and you're just as likely to lose your stash on the floor.
    But you can access amazon music and whatsapp your dealer on the phone!

    blobb said:
    Ozrics - Curious corn. I think it's perforated so you can write peoples phone numbers on and tear off a section, or something like that. Like the same way Jurassic shift album cover was made out of Hemp for environmental reasons!
    I saw ozrics play live some years ago, I can't remember when or where or whether they were any good : )
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  • darthed1981darthed1981 Frets: 11669
    edited November 2018
    munckee said:
    THE FINAL WORD: DOWNLOADS DON'T HAVE A COVER YOU CAN SKIN UP ON
    No but the size phone screens are getting now you can skin up on those.
    tablets, yes. maybe a smartphone but IMO that's as fiddly as a CD case and you're just as likely to lose your stash on the floor.
    But you can access amazon music and whatsapp your dealer on the phone!

    Phil rejected whatsapp because it won't run from the terminal... ;)
    We have to be so very careful, what we believe in...
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  • robertyroberty Frets: 10893
    munckee said:
    THE FINAL WORD: DOWNLOADS DON'T HAVE A COVER YOU CAN SKIN UP ON
    No but the size phone screens are getting now you can skin up on those.
    tablets, yes. maybe a smartphone but IMO that's as fiddly as a CD case and you're just as likely to lose your stash on the floor.
    But you can access amazon music and whatsapp your dealer on the phone!

    Phil rejected whatsapp because it won't run from the terminal... ;)
    Phone screens are perfect for racking up lines, that's what all the millennials are doing now, and probably why, too
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    roberty said:

    Modern digital sources and modern amplifiers are transparent, the only places where audible distortions occur are in the speakers and the room.  A third source of distortion would be a vinyl front end.  So speakers should be the first priority for any system I think.  Amplifiers can be chosen based on build quality, wattage and features.  You can start with a modest turntable and it still be fun, probably more so than when heavily invested
    Much of what people like about 'the sound of vinyl' is its deficiencies in EQ, dynamic response, channel separation and the distortion it introduces. So it wouldn't be impossible - and in fact it surprises me that it hasn't yet been done, if in fact it hasn't and I'm simply not aware of it - to deliberately process a digital signal to reproduce those and give 'the sound of vinyl'.

    I like listening to vinyl at a friend's house who has a big collection, but I think a large part of it is the definitely not hi-fi 1960s valve record player - with integral elliptical speakers - he has. I would guess that if you hooked a CD player up to the aux input it would sound pretty similar.

    I'm probably a philistine but I honestly don't care that much - it's nice to put a record on and listen to it, but it's also nice to put a CD on and listen to it, or to have an endless stream of AAC files playing while I'm working through a mono cab with a big old sound not dissimilar from AM radio.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27569
    ICBM said:

    I'm probably a philistine but I honestly don't care that much 
    I think that makes you the very opposite of a philistine - you appreciate the painting, not the paintbrushes.
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • darthed1981darthed1981 Frets: 11669
    ICBM said:
    I'm probably a philistine but I honestly don't care that much - it's nice to put a record on and listen to it, but it's also nice to put a CD on and listen to it, or to have an endless stream of AAC files playing while I'm working through a mono cab with a big old sound not dissimilar from AM radio.
    Exactly, it's about the choons, not the reproduction of them.
    We have to be so very careful, what we believe in...
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  • roberty said:

    So much so, that I would be more inclined to focus on good speakers etc than what format the music is in....

    Modern digital sources and modern amplifiers are transparent, the only places where audible distortions occur are in the speakers and the room.  A third source of distortion would be a vinyl front end.  So speakers should be the first priority for any system I think.  Amplifiers can be chosen based on build quality, wattage and features.  You can start with a modest turntable and it still be fun, probably more so than when heavily invested
    I'm not entirely convinced. IMO the GIGO principle applies. Most amplifiers even cheap ones will reproduce the usual audio range +/-3dB with 0,1% distortion. Speakers ARE important (as is placement) but I've seen (and heard) mediocre systems with cheap Japanese electronics and half-decent speakers transformed by upgrading the front end. (Which was a turntable). I also don't believe modern digital sources are that transparent, having compared various CD players through the same amp/speaker setup. The most civilised sounding are the Marantz jobs; I've also got a Rotel that isn't bad either.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • I still think CD was invented by a chap who didn't want to turf the cat off his lap every 20 min
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • blobbblobb Frets: 2914
    munckee said:


    blobb said:
    Ozrics - Curious corn. I think it's perforated so you can write peoples phone numbers on and tear off a section, or something like that. Like the same way Jurassic shift album cover was made out of Hemp for environmental reasons!
    I saw ozrics play live some years ago, I can't remember when or where or whether they were any good : )
    If you can remember it, you weren't there! And without a doubt they were good, they always are. I used to like taking Ozric virgins along and watching the expression on their faces when fruit salad light show kicked in. 
    Feelin' Reelin' & Squeelin'
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  • Tone71Tone71 Frets: 619
    edited November 2018
    In '91 we went to Hawkwind's 12 hour technicolour dream gig with a surprise guest at 4am, we all thought it was Ozrics as they had played the year before and it was the main reason for going.

    Through dilated pupils we waited expectantly only for Hawkwind to come back on!!

    Gutted I never got got see them, great band.
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4942
    As soon as you buy music because of the format in comes in, you've lost.

    Good streaming playback is more than adequate for most listening situations, and I'll wager pretty much no-one here would be able to tell the difference between high-end digital sources (ie. CDs or lossless streaming) and high-end analogue sources (ie. vinyl).

    It's another hipster-led fad, encouraged by the music industry as it's another revenue stream for them.

    Bah!

    You are right my friend but, and there is a big but, only when the replay systems are up to scratch.  Vinyl is far from perfect but so too is CD.  Get the technology right and the music literally speaks for itself.  The notion of a 'vinyl sound' is basically imperfections in the replay.  Ditto the so called 'clinically clean' sound of CD.

    Vinyl is a mechanical system of music reproduction.  The cartridge uses a stylus to generate two separate electrical signals.  These signals are very weak and certain frequencies are boosted in the process of mastering for vinyl.  The signal goes to a phono stage that boosts the signal to line level and compensates for the boosted frequencies.  Thus giving a more or less flat frequency signal to the amplifer.  The problem is that chain of events is very long.  First question is why use vinyl unless sound quality is the requirement?  CD or ripped or streamed is much simpler to implement so the decision to use vinyl is for the best sound quality.  Everything in the chain has to be up to the task, one weak bit and the sound quality goes out the window.  Sorry guys, but the equipment costs serious money.  Get it right and it sounds great.  Not a hint of warmth or cuddly sound - simply the music.  The much derided pops and crackles are there but they do not get in the way of the music.  But it costs a lot to get to that level of performance.  Think a good new family car price.  At the very least.

    Digital on the other hand started poorly but got better incrementally.  Fifteen years ago a £1K vinyl system would easily better a £1K digital system.  Not any more as DAC technology has improved by leaps and bounds.  A simple system comprising FLAC files on a computer, a USB DAC like the JKCuinas feeding a mid priced stereo amp and speakers is a revelation.  Jaw dropping sound quality for relatively small money.  Small that is when compared to the equivalent sound quality on vinyl.

    The Linn LP12 was the standard deck for many years.  It still sounds good but is way down the list of good turntables these days.  The LP12 adds a bloom to the bass and is in some ways responsible for the belief that vinyl sounds 'warm'.  But use a really good deck and that warmth disappears.  Much like the best examples of CD replay.  Ironically it was CD that highlighted this weakness in vinyl.

    Which was why I asked the question in the OP.  Why buy vinyl......?
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • Paul_CPaul_C Frets: 7670

    I've mentioned this before (and I'll accept it might not be the best example, but it's what I had to hand at the time) that when I bought Atoms For Peace - Amok, it came with both vinyl and CD, so I put the vinyl on my 34 year old Thorens TD166MkII and the CD into my PC and played both at the same time through a Pioneer amp and equally old Heybrook HB1s, switching back and forth between the two.

    No difference whatsoever that I could hear.
    "I'll probably be in the bins at Newport Pagnell services."  fretmeister
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  • Paul_C said:

    I've mentioned this before (and I'll accept it might not be the best example, but it's what I had to hand at the time) that when I bought Atoms For Peace - Amok, it came with both vinyl and CD, so I put the vinyl on my 34 year old Thorens TD166MkII and the CD into my PC and played both at the same time through a Pioneer amp and equally old Heybrook HB1s, switching back and forth between the two.

    No difference whatsoever that I could hear.
    Whereas I did the same with Traffic On The Road, and the CD was unlistenable ... I think a little has been learned bout CD mastering since then, though.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • robertyroberty Frets: 10893
    roberty said:

    So much so, that I would be more inclined to focus on good speakers etc than what format the music is in....

    Modern digital sources and modern amplifiers are transparent, the only places where audible distortions occur are in the speakers and the room.  A third source of distortion would be a vinyl front end.  So speakers should be the first priority for any system I think.  Amplifiers can be chosen based on build quality, wattage and features.  You can start with a modest turntable and it still be fun, probably more so than when heavily invested
    I'm not entirely convinced. IMO the GIGO principle applies. Most amplifiers even cheap ones will reproduce the usual audio range +/-3dB with 0,1% distortion. Speakers ARE important (as is placement) but I've seen (and heard) mediocre systems with cheap Japanese electronics and half-decent speakers transformed by upgrading the front end. (Which was a turntable). I also don't believe modern digital sources are that transparent, having compared various CD players through the same amp/speaker setup. The most civilised sounding are the Marantz jobs; I've also got a Rotel that isn't bad either.
    Digital audio is a problem that has been solved. There are no measurable differences in modern digital sources big enough to be audible. We listen with our eyes and expectations so the only valid objective comparisons are blind tests
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  • Musicman20Musicman20 Frets: 2296
    edited November 2018
    I buy vinyl and use the codes to get the album on mp3 to then use on my computer/iPod/phone.

    The vinyl itself is very fun to collect. Listening to it IS a different experience. You are forced not to rush around. You have to look at it, turn it over, then you realise the reason why you buy it.

    I was a CD-era teenager and I've not sold any of my old CDs. When I have a big enough place they'll be out from storage.

    Music is one of the greatest things in the world; I advise people to keep their old CDs/tapes/vinyl. 
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  • I buy vinyl and use the codes to get the album on mp3 to then use on my computer/iPod/phone.
    Despite everything I have said, I also do this. I never listen to the vinyl. In fact, I only open any cellophane packaging if the access codes are inside - I don't have a turntable setup.

    There's something to be said about the appeal of 12" vinyl packaging - they're so much more pleasing to handle than CDs.

    R.
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