Discussion On Reverb - Vintage Strat Market and Prices

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guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14029
in Guitar tFB Trader
An interesting read - Granted not all sales of such guitars go through Reverb, but it is an influential source - All info is fact based on recent sales data - Note sales achieved and not asking prices

https://reverb.com/news/the-vintage-strat-market-by-the-numbers

few interesting features - Vintage Strat Sales on Reverb by Frequency of Production Year - look at this graph and look at the dip for sales for 67, 68 and 71 models - almost as though few made, or far less come to the market

Then the graph for lower sales revenue for a refin and how little  impact it has had on refin's for the 75-79 era - Probably due to the lack of refins offered for sale of this period
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Comments

  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12641
    Or the number of refin guitars that are passed off as original....
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14029
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    impmann said:
    Or the number of refin guitars that are passed off as original....
    that is a valid comment - We all know the market is rife with various forms of bull - either via a case of deliberate intent to mislead or via ignorance
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  • newi123newi123 Frets: 850
    Interesting - from may 17, so have prices increased alot since then? Currently looking at 70s strats, and the article seems to show average sunburnt price as $1000 or so. They are all priced way, way above that currently!
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14029
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    newi123 said:
    Interesting - from may 17, so have prices increased alot since then? Currently looking at 70s strats, and the article seems to show average sunburnt price as $1000 or so. They are all priced way, way above that currently!
    The negative with such  a report is as follows :-1: 

    Take a number of 1979 Strats for sale on Reverb

    1) - Mint inc case, tags, 100% original  - with trem

    2) Poor condition or players grade - non trem - changed parts and in need of a refret - no case

    Both will be listed on Reverb as a 1979 Strat - hence one might be £900 and the other £1800 - Such variation in price will distort the info that this Reverb report has told us


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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12641
    newi123 said:
    Interesting - from may 17, so have prices increased alot since then? Currently looking at 70s strats, and the article seems to show average sunburnt price as $1000 or so. They are all priced way, way above that currently!
    The negative with such  a report is as follows :-1: 

    Take a number of 1979 Strats for sale on Reverb

    1) - Mint inc case, tags, 100% original  - with trem

    2) Poor condition or players grade - non trem - changed parts and in need of a refret - no case

    Both will be listed on Reverb as a 1979 Strat - hence one might be £900 and the other £1800 - Such variation in price will distort the info that this Reverb report has told us


    And both will be overpriced...

    Im old enough to remember when these things were best treated as firewood. Time hasn’t made them any better.

    Theres a reason why we all bought Jap in the 1980s... and then changed the pickups for something better!

    I have yet to play a Fender from 1978-1983 that is better in any measurable way than a Squier CV. And most aren’t as good.
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11412
    newi123 said:
    Interesting - from may 17, so have prices increased alot since then? Currently looking at 70s strats, and the article seems to show average sunburnt price as $1000 or so. They are all priced way, way above that currently!


    Remember you are seeing the asking price.  Reverb are seeing the actual selling price.  Some of the ones with a $1500 asking price might eventually sell for much nearer $1000.

    Also, as @guitars4you pointed out, if there aren't huge numbers of them, one or two particularly poor or particularly good examples, or one stupid buyer who pays an inflated asking price, could skew the overall average significantly.

    Actually, let me rephrase that - one buyer who is even more stupid than the type of stupid person who normally buys a 79 Strat could pay a ridiculous asking price.  Anyone with a semblance of a brain will just buy a Mexican Classic Series instead - a much better guitar in every way.

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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14029
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    impmann said:
    newi123 said:
    Interesting - from may 17, so have prices increased alot since then? Currently looking at 70s strats, and the article seems to show average sunburnt price as $1000 or so. They are all priced way, way above that currently!
    The negative with such  a report is as follows :-1: 

    Take a number of 1979 Strats for sale on Reverb

    1) - Mint inc case, tags, 100% original  - with trem

    2) Poor condition or players grade - non trem - changed parts and in need of a refret - no case

    Both will be listed on Reverb as a 1979 Strat - hence one might be £900 and the other £1800 - Such variation in price will distort the info that this Reverb report has told us


    And both will be overpriced...

    Im old enough to remember when these things were best treated as firewood. Time hasn’t made them any better.

    Theres a reason why we all bought Jap in the 1980s... and then changed the pickups for something better!

    I have yet to play a Fender from 1978-1983 that is better in any measurable way than a Squier CV. And most aren’t as good.
    'Time hasn't made them any better' is a true fact

    I had a customer the other day telling me that Hendrix played vintage guitars  - I pointed out that even one of his favourite Strats (The black Monterey 65/66 Strat), was only 1 or 2 years old when he played it - And all the large head stocked 68/69 models he played were new or a year old at best - So effectively they were new guitars - They only became 'vintage' a lot later

    In fact the reason the vintage tag became popular was the further we got into the 70's, the greater the deterioration in what we expected a good Strat to be , so many players went looking for 'older' models - I clearly remember a good pre CBS Strat selling for the same price as a new 78 Strat - Both around £350/370 - Shortly after prices for such used/vintage' went north and stayed there ever since

    I have a used antiqua Strat in stock at the moment - clean enough and all original - but a total dog to play, compared with many other Strats on the market today, from various factories
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11412
     guitars4you said:

    I have a used antiqua Strat in stock at the moment - clean enough and all original - but a total dog to play, compared with many other Strats on the market today, from various factories
    Bet that's not on the description on your website  :)
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  • Philly_QPhilly_Q Frets: 22516
    crunchman said:
     guitars4you said:

    I have a used antiqua Strat in stock at the moment - clean enough and all original - but a total dog to play, compared with many other Strats on the market today, from various factories
    Bet that's not on the description on your website  :)
    It's not, but there's absolutely no bullshit saying how amazing it is, fair play to Mark.
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  • Mark1960Mark1960 Frets: 326
    I think the quality must vary greatly, as I have a cerca 1985 Strat (all original as far as I can tell) which I have had nearly 30 years. It's a dream to play IMHO and sounds great. I have looked at replacing it over the years but have not found anything I prefer, so the year it was produced is not always an accurate guide to the quality of the instrument I think.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11412
    Mark1960 said:
    I think the quality must vary greatly, as I have a cerca 1985 Strat (all original as far as I can tell) which I have had nearly 30 years. It's a dream to play IMHO and sounds great. I have looked at replacing it over the years but have not found anything I prefer, so the year it was produced is not always an accurate guide to the quality of the instrument I think.
    85 is a very different kettle of fish to a 79
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  • Mark1960Mark1960 Frets: 326
    crunchman said:
    Mark1960 said:
    I think the quality must vary greatly, as I have a cerca 1985 Strat (all original as far as I can tell) which I have had nearly 30 years. It's a dream to play IMHO and sounds great. I have looked at replacing it over the years but have not found anything I prefer, so the year it was produced is not always an accurate guide to the quality of the instrument I think.
    85 is a very different kettle of fish to a 79
    In what way (excuse my ignorance)?
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14029
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    Philly_Q said:
    crunchman said:
     guitars4you said:

    I have a used antiqua Strat in stock at the moment - clean enough and all original - but a total dog to play, compared with many other Strats on the market today, from various factories
    Bet that's not on the description on your website  :)
    It's not, but there's absolutely no bullshit saying how amazing it is, fair play to Mark.
    Thanks - Some people buy guitars for all sorts of reasons - I know of a few sales over the last year alone to customers that don't even play

    Plus the perception of a dog and how badly it plays is a matter of opinion - Someone back in 1979 obviously liked it - Just not for me
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  • newi123newi123 Frets: 850
    There must be some good 70s strats - good music was recorded on contemporary strats in the 70s!

    I dont think vintage pricing is any reflection of how good the guitars are - its simply supply and demand isnt it? 


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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14029
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    newi123 said:
    There must be some good 70s strats - good music was recorded on contemporary strats in the 70s!

    I dont think vintage pricing is any reflection of how good the guitars are - its simply supply and demand isnt it? 


    many good examples still prior to 74/75 - but far less good examples after then - Not saying all are bad, but many are just badly built, to heavy, the lacquer is far to thick on a maple board/neck, pick-ups are nothing special to the ears of many - But I've seen a few that have been tweaked/customised to ensure something better as well
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  • newi123newi123 Frets: 850
    Cheers - And this is the thing - the reverb article seemed to show 70s strats - so including early 3 bolts of 74 / 75 - as $1000 ish. That seems to now be $3000 ish. So even allowing for offers etc, that's a huge difference! Even the late 70s stuff seems to be more like $2000. Do dealers really take 50%?
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14029
    edited December 2018 tFB Trader
    Mark1960 said:
    crunchman said:
    Mark1960 said:
    I think the quality must vary greatly, as I have a cerca 1985 Strat (all original as far as I can tell) which I have had nearly 30 years. It's a dream to play IMHO and sounds great. I have looked at replacing it over the years but have not found anything I prefer, so the year it was produced is not always an accurate guide to the quality of the instrument I think.
    85 is a very different kettle of fish to a 79
    In what way (excuse my ignorance)?
    There is no 1985 USA Strat Standard - They started again in 1987 with the Strat Standard and some had an E4 serial number, as they utilised the last of the old Fullerton serial number decals, whilst waiting for the E8 numbers to arrive

    Without checking, I'm sure the last of the Fullerton USA Vintage series was built in 1984 - Maybe some in 1985 but from Corona - not sure what spec your Strat is - serial number will help with model ID + a USA Vintage series does not say 'made in the USA' on it so easy to identify - But if it is a USA Vintage series you'll find the neck date on the butt end of the neck as the serial number itself does not have a date format within it 
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11412
    Mark1960 said:
    crunchman said:
    Mark1960 said:
    I think the quality must vary greatly, as I have a cerca 1985 Strat (all original as far as I can tell) which I have had nearly 30 years. It's a dream to play IMHO and sounds great. I have looked at replacing it over the years but have not found anything I prefer, so the year it was produced is not always an accurate guide to the quality of the instrument I think.
    85 is a very different kettle of fish to a 79
    In what way (excuse my ignorance)?
    There is no 1985 USA Strat Standard - They started again in 1987 with the Strat Standard and some had an E4 serial number, as they utilised the last of the old Fullerton serial number decals, whilst waiting for the E8 numbers to arrive

    Without checking, I'm sure the last of the Fullerton USA Vintage series was built in 1984 - Maybe some in 1985 but from Corona - not sure what spec your Strat is - serial number will help with model ID + a USA Vintage series does not say 'made in the USA' on it so easy to identify - But if it is a USA Vintage series you'll find the neck date on the butt end of the neck as the serial number itself does not have a date format within it 
    Weren't there Japanese made Fenders in the mid 80s after Fullerton closed and before the US production restarted?  By all accounts they were very well made guitars.

    I remember reading an article in a guitar magazine on the history of Fender and someone at Fender was quoted on their reaction to the first Japanese made Fenders that they got their hands on.  It was then that they realised how far things had slipped towards the end of the CBS Fender era.
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  • Strat54Strat54 Frets: 2329
    No US production between Feb 1985 and October 1985. So there are a few January made guitars then some late in the year but it took Corona a while to get up to speed. 
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  • Mark1960Mark1960 Frets: 326
    The Serial No. is E406791 does that help to get the date - I always thought it was a 1985, but am perhaps mistaken?
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