Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In with Google

Become a Subscriber!

Subscribe to our Patreon, and get image uploads with no ads on the site!

Read more...

Pedals v Helix - sobering thought

What's Hot
245

Comments

  • TheMarlinTheMarlin Frets: 7744
    Try selling a Line 6 Flextone or Spider amp here. You’d be lucky to get £50 for an amp that cost £600 new. 

    Stick with your pedals. They’ll be worth money in ten years, unlike a ‘helix 1’ which you won’t be able to sell for love nor money. 
    1reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 7reaction image Wisdom
  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    TheMarlin said:
    Try selling a Line 6 Flextone or Spider amp here. You’d be lucky to get £50 for an amp that cost £600 new. 

    Stick with your pedals. They’ll be worth money in ten years, unlike a ‘helix 1’ which you won’t be able to sell for love nor money. 
    I agree, a ten year old Helix won’t be worth a lot, but don’t see your average pedal being much of an investment either,  at the end of the day they’re all tools, did any joiners hang on to a hand drill because a Black and Decker wouldn’t be worth anything in 10 years?
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 2reaction image Wisdom
  • I suppose you could see it like the depreciation value on buying stuff and selling it at a loss, probably works out the same if you stick with it
    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
    soundcloud.com/thecolourbox-1
    youtube.com/@TheColourboxMusic
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    John_A said:

    I may be wrong, but although Line 6 are the parent company now, Line 6 still operates quite independently and the credit to Line 6 is justified 
    Line 6 UK was closed and staff in it's excellent support department were made redundant. Everything was moved to Yamaha in Germany. Line 6 is operated as a totally owned subsidiary of Yamaha.

    Check the UK website contact us page - Yamaha Germany. This doesn't mean that the support given isn't top notch.




    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    TheMarlin said:
    Try selling a Line 6 Flextone or Spider amp here. You’d be lucky to get £50 for an amp that cost £600 new. 

    Stick with your pedals. They’ll be worth money in ten years, unlike a ‘helix 1’ which you won’t be able to sell for love nor money. 
    I think you're wrong, actually. It's a pretty common claim, but take the AxeFX - the first ones came out approx. 10 years ago, now. Still reasonable to expect at least £500 second hand for one. I wonder how much they'd be worth if Fractal hadn't willingly brought out successors to it?

    It's like any gear. Long term, some stuff is in demand and other stuff isn't. A Spider was always sold as an affordable consumer item. A Helix is sold as a professional tool. How much it's worth in 10 years will be down to a; what age-related faults start to occur and b; how good its reputation is, long term - how many famous artists use it, how many users make positive noises online etc.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • TheMarlinTheMarlin Frets: 7744
    Technology will continue to march on.

    When Helix 2 comes out, Helix 1 values will plummet. Line 6 gear just doesn’t hold its value.  

    Bit like old iPhones...
    1reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 2reaction image Wisdom
  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    Well, I guess you've always been right before. :'(
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    TheMarlin said:
    Technology will continue to march on.

    When Helix 2 comes out, Helix 1 values will plummet. Line 6 gear just doesn’t hold its value.  

    Bit like old iPhones...
    May be true, but by the time it comes out I’ll probably have had mine 5 years and it’ll have paid for itself 10 times over and it won’t sound any worse than it does today
    1reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 3reaction image Wisdom
  • jellybellyjellybelly Frets: 734
    edited December 2018
    I think the old L6 stuff suffers as it wasn’t particularly well made or particularly good. In terms of modellers, the Helix is a watershed product. 

    L6 pedals have always held their value pretty well, even the monsterous tonecore ones. I’m confident the DL4, M9 and M5 will continue to hold their values and any of the Helix products will - to an extent - hold theirs too. 

    I paid £350 new for my HX Effects (PMT knocked £50 off for it being a display model). If it’s worth less than £200 - adjusted for inflation and assuming it’s in good working order - I’ll be very, very surprised. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Yeah, digital gear never holds its value, i mean look at how much the 2290 resale plummeted after TC released the Flashback
    6reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • MusicwolfMusicwolf Frets: 3627
    The digital stuff doesn't hold it's value because of the rate at which it is getting better.  Also, a lot of the focus is in trying to emulate existing amps / effects.  The result is that each generation is undeniably better than the previous one i.e. POD > POD HD > POD HD-X > Helix.  There's no 'seeking out an original model' because they sound so much better that today's stuff that you get with analogue gear.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • TTBZTTBZ Frets: 2873
    edited December 2018
    Thanks to threads like this I'm still thinking about getting an LT at some point. Use the modelling for playing at home. I'd probably still end up wanting to use a real amp for rehearsals and gigs, but reckon I could easily use it as a pedalboard replacement. I don't use any particular pedals as an essential part of my sound anyway and there are loads of times where I just fancy trying an effect but don't want to commit to buying it to try out! I do like the idea of setting it up 4CM and having various snapshots to save any kind of tap dancing - for example a solo setting switching in a higher gain drive in front of the amp whilst also giving a level boost and a bit of delay in the fx loop.

    Do the overdrive models sound and feel like the real deal boosting a valve amp and what's the noise like? I typically would just use a tubescreamer or klone for boosting an already dirty amp.

    There is something I like about buying individual pedals though, which Helix would take all the fun out of. But then I think by the time I've bought everything I want for my board I probably won't be far off the price of an LT anyway!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Musicwolf said:
    The digital stuff doesn't hold it's value because of the rate at which it is getting better.  Also, a lot of the focus is in trying to emulate existing amps / effects.  The result is that each generation is undeniably better than the previous one i.e. POD > POD HD > POD HD-X > Helix.  There's no 'seeking out an original model' because they sound so much better that today's stuff that you get with analogue gear.
    All good points, the only counter I’d make is that at some point the improvements will level off as it gets closer to ‘the real thing’. I think we’re one generation away from the difference being imperceptible (personal opinion from limited experience), which would put the Helix stuff in a very good position for first time buyers etc who haven’t got £1k+ to drop in a new modeller. 

    If were talking cork-sniffer approval though, no other product from line 6 has had the sort of acceptance the Helix stuff has over at TGP. That might change its perception on the used market....
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • timmysofttimmysoft Frets: 1962
    TTBZ said:
    Thanks to threads like this I'm still thinking about getting an LT at some point. Use the modelling for playing at home. I'd probably still end up wanting to use a real amp for rehearsals and gigs, but reckon I could easily use it as a pedalboard replacement. I don't use any particular pedals as an essential part of my sound anyway and there are loads of times where I just fancy trying an effect but don't want to commit to buying it to try out! I do like the idea of setting it up 4CM and having various snapshots to save any kind of tap dancing - for example a solo setting switching in a higher gain drive in front of the amp whilst also giving a level boost and a bit of delay in the fx loop.

    Do the overdrive models sound and feel like the real deal boosting a valve amp and what's the noise like? I typically would just use a tubescreamer or klone for boosting an already dirty amp.

    There is something I like about buying individual pedals though, which Helix would take all the fun out of. But then I think by the time I've bought everything I want for my board I probably won't be far off the price of an LT anyway!
    My original intention was to go 4CM but I rate the helix tones that much that I just ditched that idea and now I just run direct.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 2reaction image Wisdom
  • Just to note - I’m not arguing that the Helix WILL hols it’s value, I’m saying it MIGHT, but that we can’t assume it WON’T based on the current used prices of some early modelling stuff from the company’s beginnings that weren’t even considered particularly good at the time.   
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • MusicwolfMusicwolf Frets: 3627
     at some point the improvements will level off as it gets closer to ‘the real thing’. I think we’re one generation away from the difference being imperceptible (personal opinion from limited experience), which would put the Helix stuff in a very good position for first time buyers etc who haven’t got £1k+ to drop in a new modeller.
    I was thinking the same.  I haven't tried the Helix but, by all accounts, it's a similar level to the Kemper which I do own albeit through a different approach (modelling vs. profiling).  The question will be - what will Line 6 (and the others) do next?  If the end goal is for the digital version to be indistinguishable from valve amp, and the current crop are getting close, then there is finite scope for improvement.  Others will catch up and the market will become crowded.  Maybe we'll see more developments around specialist cabs (rather than people like Headrush just re-branding an Alto cab) or possibly the future is more integrated products such as better vocal processing?
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • i actually use effects so little that the pain in the arse of having a board, patch cables, power and a switcher is just not worth it. If i was in a band that needed a lot of effects and patch changes a multi FX is a no brainer for me.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    Another thing that could happen is Helix 2 comes out and costs £2000, that makes a used mk1 at £800 a bargain and still desirable, pretty much like what’s happened with Axefx so you would hardly lose a fortune

    Or Mooer could make a GE500 for £199 that is better than Helix so everyone ditches their Helix for £90

    we don’t know, and I don’t care, I’ve had three years pleasure  so far and sounded better than ever, that’s worth the investment as far as I’m concerned  
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • NorthernStompsNorthernStomps Frets: 398
    tFB Trader
    Ive got a Pod HD Bean that I’m just not using that I’m going to sell, anyone any idea of a going rate these days? 

    Mint condition with box

    Facebook: @northernstomps // Instagram: @northernstomps // Twitter: @northernstomps

    Specialist Retailer Of Handmade British Stompboxes // https://www.northernstomps.com/

    Currently Stocking: Hudson Electronic/Raygun FX/Zander Circuitry/ThorpyFX/Rainger FX/Life is Unfair/ Magnetic Effects/Fredric Effects

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • TTBZTTBZ Frets: 2873
    timmysoft said:
    TTBZ said:
    Thanks to threads like this I'm still thinking about getting an LT at some point. Use the modelling for playing at home. I'd probably still end up wanting to use a real amp for rehearsals and gigs, but reckon I could easily use it as a pedalboard replacement. I don't use any particular pedals as an essential part of my sound anyway and there are loads of times where I just fancy trying an effect but don't want to commit to buying it to try out! I do like the idea of setting it up 4CM and having various snapshots to save any kind of tap dancing - for example a solo setting switching in a higher gain drive in front of the amp whilst also giving a level boost and a bit of delay in the fx loop.

    Do the overdrive models sound and feel like the real deal boosting a valve amp and what's the noise like? I typically would just use a tubescreamer or klone for boosting an already dirty amp.

    There is something I like about buying individual pedals though, which Helix would take all the fun out of. But then I think by the time I've bought everything I want for my board I probably won't be far off the price of an LT anyway!
    My original intention was to go 4CM but I rate the helix tones that much that I just ditched that idea and now I just run direct.

    Yeah I could see that happening, for convenience more than anything else. I never got anything I was 100% happy with on the 3 occasions I tried Native though, the closest was with the Jason Sadites Placater preset (swapping out the cab for an IR) but even then I was happier with the tones I got from Mercuriall Spark without needing to use 3rd party IRs.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.