Line 6 Helix - Why does it sound so god awful

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  • ChuckManualChuckManual Frets: 692
    Roland said:

    “I played Brian May’s guitar through his amp ... and I still sounded like me.” 

    I played Matt Schofield's guitar though his amp ...and I still sounded like shit.
    Not much of the gear, even less idea.
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  • meltedbuzzboxmeltedbuzzbox Frets: 10337
    I'm very much in the same boat fella. 

    I find I always need a hi-cut at the end of the chain as anything over 7 or 8k tends to leave a harsh artifact. 
    Thats followed by a 10 band eq and sometime a compressor. 

    Mic choice, for me boils down to a choice of 87 condensor and/or an 121 Ribbon. I think I tend to go with 5" but I do adjust across amps.

    It sounds ok. I personally, would go AX8 over Helix, It sounds better for me. The menu might be annoying but its about the sound not fiddlying with knobs. 

    If you're using Helix direct ie. with amp and cab sims.... and considering its basically a recording signal chain contained with a box then why wouldn't you use a high cut? for that matter why wouldn't you also use compression and possibly some eq?

    If I were mic'ing an amp on stage id be using some eq and compression at the board if I were doing my own sound. Im sure pretty much every FOH engineer would be doing the same. So why wouldnt we have those things inside our digital signal chain?
    Did I say it shouldn't?
    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
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  • I'm very much in the same boat fella. 

    I find I always need a hi-cut at the end of the chain as anything over 7 or 8k tends to leave a harsh artifact. 
    Thats followed by a 10 band eq and sometime a compressor. 

    Mic choice, for me boils down to a choice of 87 condensor and/or an 121 Ribbon. I think I tend to go with 5" but I do adjust across amps.

    It sounds ok. I personally, would go AX8 over Helix, It sounds better for me. The menu might be annoying but its about the sound not fiddlying with knobs. 

    If you're using Helix direct ie. with amp and cab sims.... and considering its basically a recording signal chain contained with a box then why wouldn't you use a high cut? for that matter why wouldn't you also use compression and possibly some eq?

    If I were mic'ing an amp on stage id be using some eq and compression at the board if I were doing my own sound. Im sure pretty much every FOH engineer would be doing the same. So why wouldnt we have those things inside our digital signal chain?
    As an aside to this I have experimented with Hi and Lo cut etc to no real avail. But also I’d also hope to get a great tone first, as a Helix chain can end where the cab IR is if you want.

    I mean, you should be able to get a good tone with a good amp, SM57 in front and straight to PA right? Cuts and compression etc can come after but shouldn’t be the be all and end all of good tone, more fine tuning or making room in a mix.
    You really think you can get a "great" tone by shoving a 57 in front of the grill and sticking it through FOH? Im pretty sure the next time you're in a venue and you have a chance to mute your amp and hear the un-eq'd or compressed guitar sound coming out of the PA you'd be horrified!
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  • I'm very much in the same boat fella. 

    I find I always need a hi-cut at the end of the chain as anything over 7 or 8k tends to leave a harsh artifact. 
    Thats followed by a 10 band eq and sometime a compressor. 

    Mic choice, for me boils down to a choice of 87 condensor and/or an 121 Ribbon. I think I tend to go with 5" but I do adjust across amps.

    It sounds ok. I personally, would go AX8 over Helix, It sounds better for me. The menu might be annoying but its about the sound not fiddlying with knobs. 

    If you're using Helix direct ie. with amp and cab sims.... and considering its basically a recording signal chain contained with a box then why wouldn't you use a high cut? for that matter why wouldn't you also use compression and possibly some eq?

    If I were mic'ing an amp on stage id be using some eq and compression at the board if I were doing my own sound. Im sure pretty much every FOH engineer would be doing the same. So why wouldnt we have those things inside our digital signal chain?
    Did I say it shouldn't?
    You made it sound like it should be unnecessary which it isnt
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  • I'm very much in the same boat fella. 

    I find I always need a hi-cut at the end of the chain as anything over 7 or 8k tends to leave a harsh artifact. 
    Thats followed by a 10 band eq and sometime a compressor. 

    Mic choice, for me boils down to a choice of 87 condensor and/or an 121 Ribbon. I think I tend to go with 5" but I do adjust across amps.

    It sounds ok. I personally, would go AX8 over Helix, It sounds better for me. The menu might be annoying but its about the sound not fiddlying with knobs. 

    If you're using Helix direct ie. with amp and cab sims.... and considering its basically a recording signal chain contained with a box then why wouldn't you use a high cut? for that matter why wouldn't you also use compression and possibly some eq?

    If I were mic'ing an amp on stage id be using some eq and compression at the board if I were doing my own sound. Im sure pretty much every FOH engineer would be doing the same. So why wouldnt we have those things inside our digital signal chain?
    As an aside to this I have experimented with Hi and Lo cut etc to no real avail. But also I’d also hope to get a great tone first, as a Helix chain can end where the cab IR is if you want.

    I mean, you should be able to get a good tone with a good amp, SM57 in front and straight to PA right? Cuts and compression etc can come after but shouldn’t be the be all and end all of good tone, more fine tuning or making room in a mix.
    You really think you can get a "great" tone by shoving a 57 in front of the grill and sticking it through FOH? Im pretty sure the next time you're in a venue and you have a chance to mute your amp and hear the un-eq'd or compressed guitar sound coming out of the PA you'd be horrified!
    I said “good”. Also, I’ve done that loads and yes you can get a decent tone. Obviously I prefer to sculpt it afterwards but if you can’t get a decent base tone to work with out of a good player, good amp and an SM57 no amount of post processing will save you.
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  • FiftyshadesofjayFiftyshadesofjay Frets: 1427
    edited March 2019
    And I’ve had some success with a decent 800 tone! Using an Redwirez greenback IR. I started with everything at 0 and fiddled with it until it was something I liked. Ended up cutting the bass substantially and cranking the mids. Treble and presence maxed out.

    Added an EQ and boosted the highs further, especially around 4K and 8k. 

    IR was fairly dark but had a good midrange. Those settings won’t make sense for brighter IR’s.

    But I like what I’m hearing! 
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  • I'm very much in the same boat fella. 

    I find I always need a hi-cut at the end of the chain as anything over 7 or 8k tends to leave a harsh artifact. 
    Thats followed by a 10 band eq and sometime a compressor. 

    Mic choice, for me boils down to a choice of 87 condensor and/or an 121 Ribbon. I think I tend to go with 5" but I do adjust across amps.

    It sounds ok. I personally, would go AX8 over Helix, It sounds better for me. The menu might be annoying but its about the sound not fiddlying with knobs. 

    If you're using Helix direct ie. with amp and cab sims.... and considering its basically a recording signal chain contained with a box then why wouldn't you use a high cut? for that matter why wouldn't you also use compression and possibly some eq?

    If I were mic'ing an amp on stage id be using some eq and compression at the board if I were doing my own sound. Im sure pretty much every FOH engineer would be doing the same. So why wouldnt we have those things inside our digital signal chain?
    As an aside to this I have experimented with Hi and Lo cut etc to no real avail. But also I’d also hope to get a great tone first, as a Helix chain can end where the cab IR is if you want.

    I mean, you should be able to get a good tone with a good amp, SM57 in front and straight to PA right? Cuts and compression etc can come after but shouldn’t be the be all and end all of good tone, more fine tuning or making room in a mix.
    You really think you can get a "great" tone by shoving a 57 in front of the grill and sticking it through FOH? Im pretty sure the next time you're in a venue and you have a chance to mute your amp and hear the un-eq'd or compressed guitar sound coming out of the PA you'd be horrified!
    I said “good”. Also, I’ve done that loads and yes you can get a decent tone. Obviously I prefer to sculpt it afterwards but if you can’t get a decent base tone to work with out of a good player, good amp and an SM57 no amount of post processing will save you.
    compression and eq is not post processing, they are vital parts of any mic signal chain whether you're recording or on stage. honestly though if it isn't working for you by this point then id just move on, life is too short to struggle with gear
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  • Ooh, ooh, if you are using high output pickups, try the input pad. And also, make sure the input impedence is set to auto. 


    I heard a little birdy say Plini done this entire EP with Naitve, you know if that's true Ross?
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  • shuikitshuikit Frets: 224
    If you're connecting the Helix up via XLR then make sure that phantom power is switched OFF 
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  • rossyamaharossyamaha Frets: 2439
    Ooh, ooh, if you are using high output pickups, try the input pad. And also, make sure the input impedence is set to auto. 


    I heard a little birdy say Plini done this entire EP with Naitve, you know if that's true Ross?
    Genuinely no idea I'm afraid. Never heard of them but sounds great. 

    I play guitar and take photos of stuff. I also like beans on toast.

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  • sgosdensgosden Frets: 1993
    Ooh, ooh, if you are using high output pickups, try the input pad. And also, make sure the input impedence is set to auto. 


    I heard a little birdy say Plini done this entire EP with Naitve, you know if that's true Ross?
    Genuinely no idea I'm afraid. Never heard of them but sounds great. 

    I've heard/seen that fact somewhere too. Possibly not all the album, but a fair chunk of it, and all the bass tones from my patchy memory
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  • rossyamaharossyamaha Frets: 2439
    sgosden said:
    Ooh, ooh, if you are using high output pickups, try the input pad. And also, make sure the input impedence is set to auto. 


    I heard a little birdy say Plini done this entire EP with Naitve, you know if that's true Ross?
    Genuinely no idea I'm afraid. Never heard of them but sounds great. 

    I've heard/seen that fact somewhere too. Possibly not all the album, but a fair chunk of it, and all the bass tones from my patchy memory
    I wouldn't be totally surprised. A lot of music is being done with modelling stuff now. For years in fact. I remember one of Jeff Becks albums being done mostly with a POD2 and Flextone. That was years ago. 

    I play guitar and take photos of stuff. I also like beans on toast.

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  • WazmeisterWazmeister Frets: 9444
    You know, I just wish someone would write a checklist of stuff that needs doing IF the sound isn't working for you with the Helix. 

    There are lots of good suggestions on here, which aren't immediately obvious to the average guy. Imho.
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  • And I’ve had some success with a decent 800 tone! Using an Redwirez greenback IR. I started with everything at 0 and fiddled with it until it was something I liked. Ended up cutting the bass substantially and cranking the mids. Treble and presence maxed out.

    Added an EQ and boosted the highs further, especially around 4K and 8k. 

    IR was fairly dark but had a good midrange. Those settings won’t make sense for brighter IR’s.

    But I like what I’m hearing! 
    Try the Celestion IR’s. The mics they offer on their cabs sound exactly as you would expect them to. In that respect they seem to be more raw as apposed to other companies IR’s, which to me sound more ‘produced’.

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  • TTBZTTBZ Frets: 2873
    And I’ve had some success with a decent 800 tone! Using an Redwirez greenback IR. I started with everything at 0 and fiddled with it until it was something I liked. Ended up cutting the bass substantially and cranking the mids. Treble and presence maxed out.

    Added an EQ and boosted the highs further, especially around 4K and 8k. 

    IR was fairly dark but had a good midrange. Those settings won’t make sense for brighter IR’s.

    But I like what I’m hearing! 
    Try the Celestion IR’s. The mics they offer on their cabs sound exactly as you would expect them to. In that respect they seem to be more raw as apposed to other companies IR’s, which to me sound more ‘produced’.

    +1, Celestion IRs are much brighter and thinner sounding than the other big names imo. Not really to my taste. I really like that Redwirez Greenback cab though. Leon Todd posted some free ones on TGP a while ago of his 1960TV which sound great to me as well.
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  • SeziertischSeziertisch Frets: 1276
    You know, I just wish someone would write a checklist of stuff that needs doing IF the sound isn't working for you with the Helix. 

    There are lots of good suggestions on here, which aren't immediately obvious to the average guy. Imho.
    1. Make your own patches. A patch with various gain stages and eq options in it needs to be matched to the output of your guitar/pickups. Other people’s patches will only be usable insofar as your guitars output matches theirs.

    2. 3rd party impulse responses are a must. The onboard cabs are fine and offer a lot of tweakability, but it can be just another rabbit hole to fall down. I’ve used Celestion and Ownhammer IRs, both are good, Celestion have a bit more top end detail and resemble more what you would expect to hear back over the monitors in the studio without any processing on. The Ownhammer sound a bit more massaged. Depending on what you are after, either could be made to work but one may be preferable to the other.

    3. High and low pass filtering is a must. Try using the inbuilt ones in the IR or speaker can block or adding a separate EQ block after. There is a difference between the two as the dB per octave roll off is different. Depending on what you are after one may work better than the other. As has been said, high pass somewhere around the 80 to 100 hz mark, low pass somewhere between 6 and 9k. My personal preference is to get the amp/amps sounding as close as possible before switching on the high and low pass filters for the final tweak. This also means that the patches behave a lot more predictably if you hook them up to an external power amp and cab.

    4. Listen with your ears not with your eyes or your expectations of how something should behave. The eq on the amp blocks doesn’t necessarily behave like you would expect a real amp to in my experience, though it could be the case that it perfectly matches the specific amps they are modelling. In terms of controlling top end harshness don’t be afraid to set treble and or presence at zero or very close to it. The same applies to the gain settings, less is sometimes more.

    5. Embrace what the Helix can do that a real amp can’t or couldn’t without a pretty elaborate set up. In terms of improving the feel/realism of your patches try mixing in low level short delays and reverbs into the chain after your amp blocks. A short single repeat delay or a small splash or verb mixed in at 5 or 10% is not something you could pick out necessarily as being there but when you turn it off you will notice that it’s missing. It’s a feel thing as much as a sound.

    6. All of my patches have two amps, one on each chip (internally) or line on the display. I them bring the signal back together at the for a single IR. One is usually set cleaner, the other slightly dirtier. My thing is edge of breakup sounds and this works great for that, maintaining clarity while getting gritty. 

    7. The modelled dirt pedals in the Helix are fine, but for overdrive stuff try using an amp preamp block in front of the amp block or even changing the drive and eq settings on your amp between your snapshots.

    8. The Helix plays really well with other pedals. Hit the front of it with a real dirt pedal of choice and be surprised how much your modelled amp behaves like a real amp. All of the onboard effects are usable but they are not necessarily the best in class, try adding modulation pedals into the loops on the Helix, set the pedal to 100% wet and then blend in using the send amount on the Helix.


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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23906
    sgosden said:
    Ooh, ooh, if you are using high output pickups, try the input pad. And also, make sure the input impedence is set to auto. 


    I heard a little birdy say Plini done this entire EP with Naitve, you know if that's true Ross?
    Genuinely no idea I'm afraid. Never heard of them but sounds great. 

    I've heard/seen that fact somewhere too. Possibly not all the album, but a fair chunk of it, and all the bass tones from my patchy memory
    Latest Blackstone Cherry album is all helix. And they use them live.

    Annihilators latest 80s inspired thrash cd is too.

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  • SeziertischSeziertisch Frets: 1276
    sgosden said:
    Ooh, ooh, if you are using high output pickups, try the input pad. And also, make sure the input impedence is set to auto. 


    I heard a little birdy say Plini done this entire EP with Naitve, you know if that's true Ross?
    Genuinely no idea I'm afraid. Never heard of them but sounds great. 

    I've heard/seen that fact somewhere too. Possibly not all the album, but a fair chunk of it, and all the bass tones from my patchy memory
    Latest Blackstone Cherry album is all helix. And they use them live.

    Annihilators latest 80s inspired thrash cd is too.

    My experience of the Helix in the studio is that stuff recorded with it responds very well to outboard processing/further mixing. It is capable of providing raw tracks that can be made to sit and sound well in a mix
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  • TeetonetalTeetonetal Frets: 7801
    You know, I just wish someone would write a checklist of stuff that needs doing IF the sound isn't working for you with the Helix. 

    There are lots of good suggestions on here, which aren't immediately obvious to the average guy. Imho.
    1. Make your own patches. A patch with various gain stages and eq options in it needs to be matched to the output of your guitar/pickups. Other people’s patches will only be usable insofar as your guitars output matches theirs.

    2. 3rd party impulse responses are a must. The onboard cabs are fine and offer a lot of tweakability, but it can be just another rabbit hole to fall down. I’ve used Celestion and Ownhammer IRs, both are good, Celestion have a bit more top end detail and resemble more what you would expect to hear back over the monitors in the studio without any processing on. The Ownhammer sound a bit more massaged. Depending on what you are after, either could be made to work but one may be preferable to the other.

    3. High and low pass filtering is a must. Try using the inbuilt ones in the IR or speaker can block or adding a separate EQ block after. There is a difference between the two as the dB per octave roll off is different. Depending on what you are after one may work better than the other. As has been said, high pass somewhere around the 80 to 100 hz mark, low pass somewhere between 6 and 9k. My personal preference is to get the amp/amps sounding as close as possible before switching on the high and low pass filters for the final tweak. This also means that the patches behave a lot more predictably if you hook them up to an external power amp and cab.

    4. Listen with your ears not with your eyes or your expectations of how something should behave. The eq on the amp blocks doesn’t necessarily behave like you would expect a real amp to in my experience, though it could be the case that it perfectly matches the specific amps they are modelling. In terms of controlling top end harshness don’t be afraid to set treble and or presence at zero or very close to it. The same applies to the gain settings, less is sometimes more.

    5. Embrace what the Helix can do that a real amp can’t or couldn’t without a pretty elaborate set up. In terms of improving the feel/realism of your patches try mixing in low level short delays and reverbs into the chain after your amp blocks. A short single repeat delay or a small splash or verb mixed in at 5 or 10% is not something you could pick out necessarily as being there but when you turn it off you will notice that it’s missing. It’s a feel thing as much as a sound.

    6. All of my patches have two amps, one on each chip (internally) or line on the display. I them bring the signal back together at the for a single IR. One is usually set cleaner, the other slightly dirtier. My thing is edge of breakup sounds and this works great for that, maintaining clarity while getting gritty. 

    7. The modelled dirt pedals in the Helix are fine, but for overdrive stuff try using an amp preamp block in front of the amp block or even changing the drive and eq settings on your amp between your snapshots.

    8. The Helix plays really well with other pedals. Hit the front of it with a real dirt pedal of choice and be surprised how much your modelled amp behaves like a real amp. All of the onboard effects are usable but they are not necessarily the best in class, try adding modulation pedals into the loops on the Helix, set the pedal to 100% wet and then blend in using the send amount on the Helix.


    Can’t say that 2 or 3 are a must for me. I really like the stock cabs. I have 1 amp into 2 stock cabs, one with a dynamic mic the other with a condenser.

    i found IRs to be loads more faff for zero improvement.
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  • robinbowesrobinbowes Frets: 3021
    2. 3rd party impulse responses are a must.
    Sorry, no they're not. It's perfectly possible to get a great sound from the stock cabs.

    IRs have their place but they're not essential. 
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