Rhythms and poly rhythms ~ with a little Indian spice

ChrisMusic · October 2014

So who else frequents these hallowed climes, and is into unusual time signatures, and might contribute a little more wisdom, or mirth even ?

@Clarky you're good with this sort of stuff, what do you think of the Konnakol approach, and what would you recommend from personal experience ?

ThePrettyDamned · October 2014

For odd time signatures, protest the hero are good.

For example, in "yellow teeth"... Well, listen to it - mostly the intro but there are other parts.

Another good one is" a life embossed". Not my favourite song, though the lyrics are nothing short of amazing, but it has a very unusual structure. If you can make it past the very heavy first half, you'll hear bars of 15/8 quite a lot, as well as other odd ones. The 15/8 stuff is a bitch to play, it's groups of 4 8th notes followed by an 8th note rest 3 times in a rising and falling pattern.

They even labelled it as something funny in the tab book.

Money by pink Floyd is another - 7/8 and 4/4. And catchy as balls.

Clarky · October 2014

ChrisMusic said:

So who else frequents these hallowed climes, and is into unusual time signatures, and might contribute a little more wisdom, or mirth even ?

@Clarky you're good with this sort of stuff, what do you think of the Konnakol approach, and what would you recommend from personal experience ?

yup, I play outside of 4/4 and 12/8 more than anything else..

I know nothing of the Konnakol stuff at all..

the why I handle difficult time sigs is to sub divide them and count conventionally..

1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 4 e & a: is 4 beats worth of semi quavers [a 4/4 bar of 1/16ths]..

1 & a 2 & a is 2 beats worth of compound time quavers [a 6/8 bar of 1/8ths]

generally I carve up mental time sigs into sub-groups using 4, 3 and 2 as the basic blocks

this enables me to hear the strong beats and so I can feel phrasing..

for example

7/8 with a 4 - 3 sub grouping counts: "1 & 2 &" " 3 & a"

7/4 [Pink Floyd: Money] is a 3 - 4 sub groups: "1, 2, 3" "1, 2, 3, 4"

17/8 [a personal fave cos it's funky] could be 7 - 7 - 3: "1 & 2 &" " 3 & a" "1 & 2 &" " 3 & a" "4 & a"

goofing with time sigs is fun..

1nten5e · October 2014

7/4

frankus · October 2014

Choosing To Drown - by Mike Keneally is 17/16 - that guy is all aces. A wonderful guitarist

Clarky · October 2014

here's a little something with a few fun time sigs going on..

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=9104124

Note to Clarky: dude.. you seriously need to remix this one.. but not in headphones like you did last time you fkn div..

Cirrus · October 2014

I love using various time sigs, and write quite a lot of music not in 4/4. Funny thing is no one seems to notice!

If you can tolerate the post of one's own band;

The song that starts at 8:20 switches between 9/8,6/8, and swinging 4/4. Ignore the bass player fucking up the intro.

The song starting at 12:10 is 7/8 and alternately switches to 6/8 and 4/4 at various points too.

The song starting at 36:30 is I think 9/8. I think?

For my writing I try not to make the time signature a feature. If it's unusual it's because that's what the melodies seemed to want, and I find it quite liberating to either add or subtract beats from bars to control the ebb and flow of a melody - it can be a great trick for adding excitement to a song where there might have been longer gaps between phrases otherwise.

ChrisMusic · October 2014

Thanks @Cirrus - good gig, I enjoyed all of it, glad you posted it here. Interesting and very effective use of sig changes.

Thanks to all for your contributions so far, perspectives and music too, fantastic...

ChrisMusic · November 2014

Hey @Clarky - thanks for your advice on breaking it down, and I agree it is fun messing around with time sigs. I also enjoyed rummaging around your soundclick stuff, thanks for posting that. Oh and what was wrong with your monitors then ?

ChrisMusic · November 2014

Anthony Wellington teaches rhythm using the rhythm yardstick.

A pretty good visual explanation of what Clarky was saying above.

Duration 8:48

ChrisMusic · November 2014

Anthony Wellington "Four Levels of Awareness" for a musician.

Duration 4:32

Clarky · November 2014

ChrisMusic said:

Hey @Clarky - thanks for your advice on breaking it down, and I agree it is fun messing around with time sigs. I also enjoyed rummaging around your soundclick stuff, thanks for posting that. Oh and what was wrong with your monitors then ?

no worries matey… time sigs are fun and often not explained well.. which is why some folk struggle with them..

I mixed that track on headphones before I had proper studio monitors..

ChrisMusic · November 2014

Headphones are great for checking details and nuances, and for spatial stuff in the stereo sound field.

But there really is no substitute IMHO, for moving some air in the room. (as long as the room sounds good (neutral) / predictable)

What do you use for mixing @Clarky ?

ChrisMusic · November 2014

Just moving the starting point around in a pattern, you can completely change the feel.

Anthony Wellington teaches slap bass and rhythm using the "Modes of Rhythm" - well worth watching

Duration 5:26

Clarky · November 2014

ChrisMusic said:

Headphones are great for checking details and nuances, and for spatial stuff in the stereo sound field.
But there really is no substitute IMHO, for moving some air in the room. (as long as the room sounds good (neutral) / predictable)
What do you use for mixing @Clarky ?

I have a pair of KRK V6 mk1 monitors..

nothing mega, but I know how they sound and get pretty ok mixes with them..

ChrisMusic · November 2014

Thanks for that @Clarky, I am going to need to get something like that soon-ish, along with other recording gear, so it's good to get a recommendation from experienced hands (or should that be ears ?).

Clarky · November 2014

if you want great value for money mid-sized monitors, Yamaha HS7

the V6 are more expensive but I don't think they are better..

ChrisMusic · November 2014

Cheers @Clarky, I appreciate that. Everything has changed so much since my "past life". All a wonderful new learning curve.

I'll get by with a little help from my friends. Someone should write a song about that...

Clarky · November 2014

no worries matey…

back on topic… time sigs..

when working with the more tricky time sigs, it's pretty easy to make them sound really out there and difficult..

personally, I love it when even the most difficult sigs / sig combinations are made to sound easy and fluid, just as if you're listening to 4/4..

ChrisMusic · November 2014

A great western introduction, usage and context of this technique.

Watch it through

If you are not used to time sigs and poly-rythms it may just make your head spin a bit.

It will broaden your rhythmic horizons as a musician ~ guaranteed* ~

(*pretty much, depending on your music world view and tenacity obviously)

Introduction ~ by Henrik Andersen

Duration 7:21

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

Rhythms and poly rhythms ~ with a little Indian spice

Comments