Line 6 Helix

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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23948
    I'm looking forward to a proper Bass demo.

    I used to use a Bass Pod Pro XT and it was a brilliant unit. I hope that L6 doesn't skimp on the bass features.
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  • FuzzdogFuzzdog Frets: 839
    The Send/Return category has both mono and stereo subcategories, so yes.
    So if I have a stereo delay prior to the Effect Sends and Returns and wish to use a stereo Send, that delay gets summed to mono?

    If so, that's the same flaw the M13 and M9 had. That it's replicated on a device as expensive as the Helix is pretty bizarre.  


    I took that answer to mean 'yes, it can sum stereo to mono if you want to, but if not, you can do stereo too', personally - hopefully I'm right!  :))
    -- Before you ask, no, I am in no way, shape or form related to Fuzzdog pedals, I was Fuzzdog before Fuzzdog were Fuzzdog.  Unless you want to give me free crap, then I'm related to whatever the hell you like! --
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  • So if I have a stereo delay prior to the Effect Sends and Returns and wish to use a stereo Send, that delay gets summed to mono?
    Not at all. Even if you use a mono send, I believe if you leave the Send's Dry Thru parameter set to 0.0dB, the stereo upstream path will pass through, imaging intact.
    Chief Product Design Architect, Yamaha Guitar Group | Line 6 | Ampeg
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  • Any chance of a version with built in SS amp?
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    I think (hope!) that this is going to change everything for me. I just got back from band practice, and for the first time I was doing vocals in a band context. Playing and singing at the same time is hassle enough without tap dancing. I think I might need some full-rig-presets to get me through a couple of songs!!
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  • spacecadetspacecadet Frets: 671
    Drew_fx said:
    I think (hope!) that this is going to change everything for me. I just got back from band practice, and for the first time I was doing vocals in a band context. Playing and singing at the same time is hassle enough without tap dancing. I think I might need some full-rig-presets to get me through a couple of songs!!
    Thats what made me get the Gigrig. Singing whilst changing channels and switching several pedals was a bit too much. I'll be interested to do an a/b of one of these vs my rig. If it's even 80% thats good enough for me.
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  • monquixotemonquixote Frets: 17485
    edited June 2015 tFB Trader
    Drew_fx said:
    I think (hope!) that this is going to change everything for me. I just got back from band practice, and for the first time I was doing vocals in a band context. Playing and singing at the same time is hassle enough without tap dancing. I think I might need some full-rig-presets to get me through a couple of songs!!
    Thats what made me get the Gigrig. Singing whilst changing channels and switching several pedals was a bit too much. I'll be interested to do an a/b of one of these vs my rig. If it's even 80% thats good enough for me.
    Yep, same here. 

    I fuck up pedal changes a lot more now I sing a lot.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22096
     
    So if I have a stereo delay prior to the Effect Sends and Returns and wish to use a stereo Send, that delay gets summed to mono?
    Not at all. Even if you use a mono send, I believe if you leave the Send's Dry Thru parameter set to 0.0dB, the stereo upstream path will pass through, imaging intact.
    Excellent! An advance since my failed experiments with the M series stuff then :)



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  • Digital_IglooDigital_Igloo Frets: 378
    edited June 2015
    paul_backskin said: Any chance of a version with built in SS amp?
    Can't talk about future plans, but if a solid state Helix amp is something you'd like to see, submit it on IdeaScale and then vote it up.
    Chief Product Design Architect, Yamaha Guitar Group | Line 6 | Ampeg
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    edited June 2015
    @Digital_Igloo - any word on a launch date for the UK market, or rough time frame?


    Also re: the lack of a reverse delay... could this be because the delay's all now have a "direction" parameter with the "forwards" and "backwards" options?? Or am I living in cloud cookoo land?
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  • ElectroDanElectroDan Frets: 554
    paul_backskin said: Any chance of a version with built in SS amp?
    Can't talk about future plans, but if a solid state Helix amp is something you'd like to see, submit it on IdeaScale and then vote it up.

    What else shall we ask Father Igloo for? A stereo full range powered cab, something like atomic do would probably be good for live players. Plenty of power for the low end botherers. Would need to have sleek, sophisticated looks in-keeping with the new Helix.
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 219
    A built in solid state amp could be cool. No idea if that's possible but hey....
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  • DesVegasDesVegas Frets: 4510
    I'll wait for the Helix Nano.
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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12646
    edited June 2015
    AndyJP;671363" said:
    A built in solid state amp could be cool. No idea if that's possible but hey....
    Vetta III :)
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    Not necessarily a built in solid state amp, but some sort of addon you could buy, at a variety of power levels... could be cool.
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  • I've got to say... and I hate to be hater... but doesn't it sound a bit, in the demos - doesn't it sound a bit... shit?

    I will be surprised if the cab modelling is really up to Kemper or AxeFX - because it doesn't sound like it is - and perhaps I'm still sore about Line 6 modulation effects after the X3 Live but they just don't do everything well enough. 

    Looks nice, does LOADS, but for a bunch of guys interested in buffers, analogue this, germanium that, I'm quite surprised to see so many of us perfectly ok with the idea of plugging their guitars straight into a D/A converter and being wowed at the possibilities.

    I do think it's a little expensive, and UNLESS they have nailed the cabs and everything else is really very good, I'm going to stick my neck out and predict a bit of a flop...

    But the main thing is, listening to the demos, it doesn't sound that nice to me...

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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    Can't comment on the "demos" really... it's not my style. I need to hear high-gain metal to really know if it's good or not.

    But they're not really demos at this point. They're teasers... with presumably beta-level firmware in the unit, and not a whole lot of preparation time.

    The reverb at the end of the Sweetwater demo sounds very Big Sky-ish imho. The brief modulation effects sound much more natural than previous Line 6 units.

    I don't give a stuff about analog personally. I don't care about Klon's, Germanium fuzzes, true-bypass versus buffered, etc.. etc... I care whether something SOUNDS GOOD.

    And at this point in time, it's utterly premature to make a judgement on that. Which is why 90% of what you've seen about this unit that we're all getting excited about, is pretty much limited to the looks and the workflow and the possibilities of the thing.

    Of course, YES... if it sounds shit, it's going to fail. No question... but something tells me that Line 6 have thought of that.

    If we're going on the HD500... the amp modelling in that unit sounds every bit as good as Kemper and Axe FX... the cabs sucked, sure.

    Loading an IR into an Axe FX II and loading an IR into this new Helix shouldn't really sound that different. Take an impulse, load it into each unit... feed it the same source audio... it will sound the same. Convolution isn't something that is open to subjective qualitative differences - it's hardcore mathematics... so the stock cabs on the Helix unit might not sound good, who knows... but the IR capabilities will sound as good as the Axe FX or Kemper.

    I don't think it's expensive at all. Go and look at your guitars, your effects pedals, and your amps... I'm betting you've got or have had something equally as expensive.

    All in all... I think it's fine for us to go all dream-like about the possibilities... but it's a bit premature to start passing total judgement on it.
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  • hugbothugbot Frets: 1528
    edited June 2015
    The sweetwater demo he doesent really stretch it beyond playing the same old guitar shop shite. It bit premature to be judging it based on that.

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  • AbandonMuteAbandonMute Frets: 29
    edited June 2015

    Drew_fx said:

    But they're not really demos at this point. They're teasers... with presumably beta-level firmware in the unit, and not a whole lot of preparation time.

    The reverb at the end of the Sweetwater demo sounds very Big Sky-ish imho. The brief modulation effects sound much more natural than previous Line 6 units.

    Of course, YES... if it sounds shit, it's going to fail. No question... but something tells me that Line 6 have thought of that.

    If we're going on the HD500... the amp modelling in that unit sounds every bit as good as Kemper and Axe FX... the cabs sucked, sure.

    Loading an IR into an Axe FX II and loading an IR into this new Helix shouldn't really sound that different. Take an impulse, load it into each unit... feed it the same source audio... it will sound the same. Convolution isn't something that is open to subjective qualitative differences - it's hardcore mathematics... so the stock cabs on the Helix unit might not sound good, who knows... but the IR capabilities will sound as good as the Axe FX or Kemper.

    I don't think it's expensive at all. Go and look at your guitars, your effects pedals, and your amps... I'm betting you've got or have had something equally as expensive.

    All in all... I think it's fine for us to go all dream-like about the possibilities... but it's a bit premature to start passing total judgement on it.
    Not passing total judgement - I just think the Sweetwater demo sound less than great. And it IS a demo, it's properly recorded and intended to give an impression of the product. As for guessing about the firmware and the relevance of that... ok...

    The Line6 video sounds good though, it's quite hard to believe that both came from the same product. 

    You're quite right about the theory behind impulses - give or take assumptions about sample rate, bit depth etc - but the point remains that according to you (I would agree) the cabs in the HD500 sucked. Why would that be?

    Of course there's gear that costs more, so what? My point was that if the cab modelling isn't great, people will be running into power amps etc. I would also bet that Line6 will be seeking to extract further money from users with additional packs and IRs. If that's the case, what we need to know is (in addition to whether it's any good) the cost of a completely pimped out Helix. 

    Line6's modelling has never been that great (I mean it's fine for the price, but it's not the stuff dreams are made of). They've made a few classic effects (mainly delays) and some truly horrible guitar processors. There's a history of patchy reliability, lack of updates/fixes and poor customer service. If this sounds magical and works as well as everyone hopes, it'll be a first for them. I hope it does! It would be a frankly awesome solution. 

    Take a TimeLine, a Big Sky, a PitchFactor, and say a ModFactor. Each piece has a powerful processor in it, a Sharc or whatever, and we know that those processors are needed to a) sound the way they sound, and b) deal with spillover, instant patch changes etc. (And some people still complain about some of these pedals not sounding like 'real' pedals). If we're taking about comparisons to Strymon and the rest of the big DSP boys, Line6 must have done some efficient programming if this is going to compete, because once you engage the processing on those four effects that's already a lot of processing. Add in all the convolution - that's amp responses, cab responses, mic responses and room responses, AND all the rest of it like graphics and OS - that's a lot of 'hardcore mathematics'. I think expecting the Heilx to sound and perform as well as these pedals could be unrealistic when it costs the same as just three big Strymons. I could totally be wrong.

    Add in stuff like the preset lag being 'under development' though... I dunno... It'll be interesting finding out!



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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    Speaking of quality, I had an Eventide SPACE pedal, and it was unusable in front of a high-gain valve amp. It was too noisy, and there are many other complaints of this with the other Eventide FACTOR pedals as well. I just got an H9 pedal and it's like night and day difference. A £100 Boss reverb pedal is quieter in front of a high-gain valve amp than the (at the time) £450 quid SPACE pedal... so no, price is not really an indicator of quality even at a lower level.

    But lets not turn this thread into a bitch fest. You're totally right, it is going to be interesting to find out! If it doesn't do everything I want it to do, I wont use it. Simples. But right now on paper, it's the only multi-effect unit that offers the specs I have been looking for, for the best part of 6 years.
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