Line 6 Helix

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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    edited June 2015
    Honestly the demos mean nothing so far - I've heard some terrible Kemper and Axe FX 2 demos and some incredible ones.  I own an Axe FX2 and am very happy with it.  I still think a tube amp has the potential to sound better, but the trade offs aren't worth it to me in my situation (YMMV).

    The cabs in the HD500 weren't the same as normal IRs.  They were more like filters as I understand it.  There was an ongoing feature request to include IRs but L6 said something on their webforums to the effect of it would take up too much processing power to allow IRs in the same way the Axe FX loads them.  I hope I have remembered that correctly, feel free to clarify if anyone knows better.

    Personally I have A/B'd the HD500x and Axe FX2 through a decent setup, GT1000FX power amp and Mesa 2x12 cab.  The Axe FX when set correctly had better punch and a better response to picking.  The HD was difficult to get punchy without being flubby or unbalanced, and the pick attack wasn't able to go as spongy in a natural feeling way.  Realistically you could get a useable sound out of either, but it was much easier with the Axe FX provided you tweak the low frequency resonance correctly.  This models the poweramp interaction with the cab, and IMO makes all the difference with an SS poweramp.  FWIW I mostly play fairly high gain tones.

    I might have missed the response but I asked if @Digital_Igloo can confirm if the Helix will have some kind of way to model the interaction between power amp and speaker cab, when using a SS power amp (which I'd expect to be the most common application of non-DI use, not many people are using valve PAs these days).  

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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26453

    Take a TimeLine, a Big Sky, a PitchFactor, and say a ModFactor. Each piece has a powerful processor in it, a Sharc or whatever, and we know that those processors are needed to a) sound the way they sound, and b) deal with spillover, instant patch changes etc. (And some people still complain about some of these pedals not sounding like 'real' pedals). If we're taking about comparisons to Strymon and the rest of the big DSP boys, Line6 must have done some efficient programming if this is going to compete, because once you engage the processing on those four effects that's already is a lot of processing. Add in all the convolution - that's amp responses, cab responses, mic responses and room responses, AND all the rest of it like graphics and OS - that's a lot of 'hardcore mathematics'. I think expecting the Heilx to sound and perform as well as these pedals could be unrealistic when it costs the same as just three big Strymons. I could totally be wrong.


    From what I've been reading (might've made a mistake), the Helix does have two dual-core SHARC processors in it for DSP, and a separate controller for UI and interface duties.

    No, they're not TigerSHARCs, but still...that's not a small amount of horsepower. Also looks like they might be the same ones which will be dropped into the Fractal AX8.
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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    Yeah Cliff has been posting about that, in a fairly balanced way for him too.  His main point is the Fractal algorithms take more power to run, hence why AX8 will only do one amp per patch.  I have literally no way of proving that is due to extra detail vs the Helix and not a combination of that and coding efficiency.  I sometimes can't even remember my own 4 digit gym lock code, computer coding is out of my league.  :)

    Regardless, the G3 Axe FX models are good.  Definitely a noticeable league above the POD stuff.  I'd have liked to try the new HD 5150 amps, but realistically I'm more than happy with the Fractal models of those amps and doubt the POD would end up being as good anyway.
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  • AbandonMuteAbandonMute Frets: 29
    edited June 2015
    Yeah I have no skin in the fight, I'm just cynical about this being the dream solution. The numbers don't seem to quite add up and the demos are sketchy. I guess I'm withholding judgement (with a slight prejudice against phrases like 'tour-grade' and smothering all audio examples in reverb, stereo delay and modulation).

    Time will tell! Interesting about the processors and IRs
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  • hugbothugbot Frets: 1528
    edited June 2015
    The thing is everyone loved the POD2 when it came out. Its not like Line 6's modelling has always been drek, its only recently that big guns like fractal and strymon (who are ex line 6) have raised peoples expectations with "boutique" modelling. 


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  • chrispy108chrispy108 Frets: 2336
    I'm not gigging any more, so I'm not the market for this, but the workflow and usability is a much bigger deal to me than the sound. Pretty much any unit can be tweaked to produce good enough sound (Not necessarily accurate ones, but good enough). Line 6 aren't going to be releasing a unit that sounds shit.

    The flexibility of routing, switching and the  footswitch labels and colour rings look awesome.
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26753
    I'm not gigging any more, so I'm not the market for this, but the workflow and usability is a much bigger deal to me than the sound. Pretty much any unit can be tweaked to produce good enough sound (Not necessarily accurate ones, but good enough). Line 6 aren't going to be releasing a unit that sounds shit.

    The flexibility of routing, switching and the  footswitch labels and colour rings look awesome.
    This, and particularly the bold bit. 

    A lot of other niche-tech-geekery sites talk about the concept of "good enough"- the point where some new thing is developed enough that its shortcomings (whether that's storage space, battery life, price, or lack of ability to sound exactly like Jeff Beck on whatever obscure record in your bedroom) don't get in the way of just using the bloody thing. That's the point fence-sitters jump in and the market goes nuts. iPhone 3GS, Samsung Galaxy S2, [the day HDTVs first dropped under £500], the Ford Model T (and the original Mini), you get the picture.

    The truth is, pretty much everything on the guitar market is "good enough". Some things are a bit overpriced, some things don't have *precisely* the featureset that everyone wants, and it's impossible to change a valve in an AC30 in less than 30 minutes, but honestly it's all pretty bloody good these days.


    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • longilongi Frets: 95
    Thomman are showing the Helix pricing at £1076.84 as of right now. Not too bad really, could've been £1500! There's another Sweetwater demo up as well. On paper it offers far more than I would ever need with it's crazy routing options, but the addtion of the extra loops for whatever you want to use them for, plus amp switching and more importantly (for me) overhauled user interface really sells it to me. I'm not in the market for a new MFX right now, after all I still an AX3000G which I've only just started to use direct after 9 years of ownership and I still have a Boss GT-100 that I haven't integrated into my live setup as yet, so I'm not in a real rush. But If the Helix is light years ahead in every department over the GT-100 I'll certainly be looking at it in around a years time. It does look good though....
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
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  • FuzzdogFuzzdog Frets: 839

    The truth is, pretty much everything on the guitar market is "good enough". Some things are a bit overpriced, some things don't have *precisely* the featureset that everyone wants, and it's impossible to change a valve in an AC30 in less than 30 minutes, but honestly it's all pretty bloody good these days.


    This!  To be honest, most modelling stuff has been 'good enough' for a long time now in my opinion, the biggest issue is how easy it is to create those sounds and get them out into the world.  That's what perks my interest most about the Helix, as it really does look like they sat down and thought long and hard about how people would actually use it, which I swear quite a lot of manufacturers don't spend nearly enough time on.

    I don't care if something can give me 100% authentic reproductions of the dust levels on 1960's resistors, if it's annoying to program (or, more importantly, tweak quickly in a rehearsal room or on a stage), I'll happily take something which 'sounds worse' and probably end up making it sound ten times better.  I think that even if the Helix had that interface and the same I/O but had a Pod 2.0 gaffer taped inside, I'd probably still be happy with it. :))

    -- Before you ask, no, I am in no way, shape or form related to Fuzzdog pedals, I was Fuzzdog before Fuzzdog were Fuzzdog.  Unless you want to give me free crap, then I'm related to whatever the hell you like! --
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    The Recto tones from the Pod 2.0 were all any of the metal guys lived on for a number of years!! I cut my teeth on a Vox Pathfinder and a Pod 2.0 !!
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  • Drew_fx;674128" said:
    The Recto tones from the Pod 2.0 were all any of the metal guys lived on for a number of years!! I cut my teeth on a Vox Pathfinder and a Pod 2.0 !!
    They were not half bad! I loved using the Plexi model as a clean into a solid state amp, running it in front.
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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    The Soldano tones were fun on the early POD too.

    I had that Sweetwater demo playing on my iPad when brushing my teeth this morning, the univibe sounds good!
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    I'd like to hear some high-gain 5150 and recto tones from the Helix.
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  • Drew_fx;674151" said:
    I'd like to hear some high-gain 5150 and recto tones from the Helix.
    At £1000 ish on thomann, if it does a convincing fender clean, Marshall clean ish and a soldano or diezel/5150 saturation well, it would genuinely be a great solution for home people like me who just like playing and recording, with the odd gig and jam thrown in.

    I have my favourite overdrive and fuzz pedals, and a great delay to sit in the loops. Hopefully the other effects on board would allow me to sell the rest.
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16253
    I know I'm not the target audience but out of curiosity watched the Sweetwater demo. Reminded me of going on IT training at work where they tell you everything is easy, show you what to do and then back at your own desk the next day you're f****d.


    When the chap from Sweetwater talks about how great the models are compared to older ones I did think ' I'm pretty sure you would have said they were great at the time, Grrr.' I think I would also struggle to get past the idea of having £1k of digital equipment down by my feet for a sweaty pub gig and if I was playing better gigs than that how much would I need a one box solution? On the other hand for those big US worship gigs going straight to a nice PA this is the dream.
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26453
    I think I would also struggle to get past the idea of having £1k of digital equipment down by my feet for a sweaty pub gig and if I was playing better gigs than that how much would I need a one box solution? On the other hand for those big US worship gigs going straight to a nice PA this is the dream.
    That's the part I've always struggled with, but...how many of us have over £1k of pedals down at our feet on stage?

    Most of the time I get an actual stage at gigs so the only thing I have to do is keep the singer away from my board, hence not being especially worried about this. What I do worry about is that if I went for one of these, it'd be the sole source of sound in my rig; what the hell do I do if it dies at a gig?

    No..."buy a spare" isn't really an option ;)
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 219
    I think I would also struggle to get past the idea of having £1k of digital equipment down by my feet for a sweaty pub gig and if I was playing better gigs than that how much would I need a one box solution? On the other hand for those big US worship gigs going straight to a nice PA this is the dream.
    That's the part I've always struggled with, but...how many of us have over £1k of pedals down at our feet on stage?

    Most of the time I get an actual stage at gigs so the only thing I have to do is keep the singer away from my board, hence not being especially worried about this. What I do worry about is that if I went for one of these, it'd be the sole source of sound in my rig; what the hell do I do if it dies at a gig?

    No..."buy a spare" isn't really an option ;)
    You'd have yer old pod as a spare. But be worried people wouldn't notice the difference ;)
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26453
    AndyJP said:
    I think I would also struggle to get past the idea of having £1k of digital equipment down by my feet for a sweaty pub gig and if I was playing better gigs than that how much would I need a one box solution? On the other hand for those big US worship gigs going straight to a nice PA this is the dream.
    That's the part I've always struggled with, but...how many of us have over £1k of pedals down at our feet on stage?

    Most of the time I get an actual stage at gigs so the only thing I have to do is keep the singer away from my board, hence not being especially worried about this. What I do worry about is that if I went for one of these, it'd be the sole source of sound in my rig; what the hell do I do if it dies at a gig?

    No..."buy a spare" isn't really an option ;)
    You'd have yer old pod as a spare. But be worried people wouldn't notice the difference ;)
    They most certainly would notice the difference, because the whole point of having the Helix is that the workflow is different - so I can do things that actually aren't possible with a POD (or Eleven Rack, or G5x etc). Hence the problem.
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 219
    Ooooft.  Tough crowd.
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