Guitar sonic vintagising - ToneRite, etc

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  • FelineGuitarsFelineGuitars Frets: 11496
    edited December 2015 tFB Trader
    I use one of the older Model C sustainiacs (the ones with the clamp on headstock transducer and floor controller)to do a similar thing on some of my custom builds but using classic rock albums like Led Zep to shake the guitars timbers as if the guitar was being played loud in front of 100w stacks for a period of time.

    So in the pic below instead of plugging into the guitar jack I plug into the headphone socket of a CD player and don't bother hooking up the amp either.

    image
    In a way I am trying to simulate actual playing and live use on the timbers. 
    I started doing this as when some of my new builds came back to the workshop after a year or so of playing I noticed that the sounded different to when they went out and that the year of being together and being played had done something positive to the guitar's sound...and that the guitar sounded more mature and some sonic rough edges had been smoothed out.

    Many guitars have a re-sale value. Some you'll never want to sell.
    Stockist of: Earvana & Graphtech nuts, Faber Tonepros & Gotoh hardware, Fatcat bridges. Highwood Saddles.

    Pickups from BKP, Oil City & Monty's pickups.

      Expert guitar repairs and upgrades - fretwork our speciality! www.felineguitars.com.  Facebook too!

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  • randomhandclapsrandomhandclaps Frets: 20521
    edited December 2015

    Not spotted these before but really intrigued and tempted.  I know from experience the difference settling in front of an amp can make and if these can actually simulate that then the price seems pretty reasonable.


    Why wouldn't I just put the guitar in front of a loudspeaker?


    Looking at Feline's photo I wonder if similar things could be achieved by clamping a piezo disc speaker type arrangement?!! Hmmmm....
    My muse is not a horse and art is not a race.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    Guitars definitely improve over time.  The question to me is whether it is extra age on the wood, or vibration (or a bit of both) that causes it.  I think that it is more than just age.  I think vibration makes a difference.  In which case this will probably help.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71959
    I'm sure it's a real change. One thing I have noticed time and again in the shop is then when a guitar comes in for sale that hasn't been played regularly, it often doesn't sound very good. But once it's been hanging on the shop wall for a few weeks - even if it hasn't been played much - and without anything else being done to it, it often starts to sound much better. Its not just me who notices this, it's enough people that I would say it's a genuine difference. It applies to solidbodies as well as acoustics.

    There are three possible causes I can think of: the guitar being suspended on a hanger rather than resting in a case; the humidity and temperature cycles which it will be more exposed to than in the case; and the vibration of people trying other guitars and especially amps in the same room. Often when I'm trying an amp at higher volume I will stop playing and all the acoustics in the shop keep on humming for quite a while afterwards, so there's clearly plenty of vibration.

    My guess is that it's the vibration mainly, so I don't instinctively doubt that doing it deliberately in a controlled way will achieve the same thing. I would still like to know for sure though.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • FelineGuitarsFelineGuitars Frets: 11496
    tFB Trader
    My take on it is this 
    Vibrations going through a guitar body and neck cause the wood fibres to de-stress and slowly lose the tensions that are still in them from when they were a tree. 
    It is also one of the reasons many custom builders cut their wood and leave to settle before re-planing and glueing up.
    Some makers like my friend Doug at Blackmachine take that process so seriously that a build can take way longer than most would see as commercially sensible.

    Just having a guitar out on a hanger or stand and around music - say sat in front of your Hi-fi speakers will allow the body to resonate and settle down - this used to be advice given to purchasers of new acoustic guitars.
    By this logic ICBM's observations of guitars in a busy shop benefitting and getting better by osmosis are on the money

    All we do with the forced vibrations is speed the process up - a bit like actually vigorously playing for the equivalent of a week.
    It gives a slight head start and makes the guitar sound better from the get-go.
    We also do it before any final fret dress and set-up so that any slight movements in the wood are taken care of by the fret levelling.

    Many guitars have a re-sale value. Some you'll never want to sell.
    Stockist of: Earvana & Graphtech nuts, Faber Tonepros & Gotoh hardware, Fatcat bridges. Highwood Saddles.

    Pickups from BKP, Oil City & Monty's pickups.

      Expert guitar repairs and upgrades - fretwork our speciality! www.felineguitars.com.  Facebook too!

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  • I am sure it was the Yairi factory tour or I read it he plays them music so they now know there job is to no longer be trees but musical instruments. Like the sustainiac idea, till a young customer comes back moaning I can't stand this guitar makes everything sound like Jimmy page sounds like my dads guitar ha ha
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    ICBM said:
    I'm sure it's a real change. One thing I have noticed time and again in the shop is then when a guitar comes in for sale that hasn't been played regularly, it often doesn't sound very good. But once it's been hanging on the shop wall for a few weeks - even if it hasn't been played much - and without anything else being done to it, it often starts to sound much better. Its not just me who notices this, it's enough people that I would say it's a genuine difference. It applies to solidbodies as well as acoustics.
    Sometimes I think I get this with my own guitars.  Having a double figure number of guitars does mean they don't all get played regularly.  That's partly why I have been half-heartedly downsizing so I do play the ones I have more.  The problem is that when I sell I keep buying new ones.  I think I do have 2 less than I did 3 or 4 years ago.
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  • FelineGuitarsFelineGuitars Frets: 11496
    tFB Trader
    Like the sustainiac idea, till a young customer comes back moaning I can't stand this guitar makes everything sound like Jimmy page sounds like my dads guitar ha ha
    I bumped into Jimmy at London Victoria station on Sunday afternoon . (true story)

    He was headed for his train or I may have discussed using his work to train guitars what to play

    Many guitars have a re-sale value. Some you'll never want to sell.
    Stockist of: Earvana & Graphtech nuts, Faber Tonepros & Gotoh hardware, Fatcat bridges. Highwood Saddles.

    Pickups from BKP, Oil City & Monty's pickups.

      Expert guitar repairs and upgrades - fretwork our speciality! www.felineguitars.com.  Facebook too!

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  • I bumped into Jimmy at London Victoria station on Sunday afternoon . (true story)

    Guitars to the Stars :-)
    ICBM I defiantly feel a well played guitar is develops its character good or bad. I have bought a couple of case queens over the years and to be honest a couple of them I have felt were really Meh when I played them at the sellers house get them home with some regret but buy them because they were want I wanted. Play the shit out of them for a couple of months and then one day you usually get a little epiphany and go why did he ever sell this.

    I am personally interested in when the Torrefaction process they are doing on Acoustic tops get transferred to electric necks and bodies, when I was in the states recently most shop have Torriefied acoustics they are still rare over here. 

     I know some companies like Music Man and PRS dry the shit out of their wood with dehumidifiers but Torrefaction is a different process and is going to be closer to a piece of wood that has all the liquid removed and resins solidified or vented out closer to a 50 year old classic. It may or may not improve guitars but I reckon Gibson will be looking at it for the Ultra Ultra genuine Historic 2017/18 as wood type and age on their historic series is one of the weak links. The wood they use these days is the wrong species has different qualities to 50's Honduras and is probably no where near as dry as a genuine 50's guitar.




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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71959
    It may or may not improve guitars but I reckon Gibson will be looking at it for the Ultra Ultra genuine Historic 2017/18 as wood type and age on their historic series is one of the weak links. The wood they use these days is the wrong species has different qualities to 50's Honduras and is probably no where near as dry as a genuine 50's guitar.
    No, 2017/18 is only scheduled for Ultra Genuine Historic. Ultra Ultra Genuine Historic doesn't come out until 2019/20, they need to wait a couple of years before they can sell the same people another infinitesimally changed guitar which still isn't exactly the same as the original.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • brucegillbrucegill Frets: 710
    edited December 2015
    Looking forward to seeing what people think when they arrive. Very tempted. Got a new Collings thats lovely but a little tight. Did you guys order from the US direct? Shame the youtube videos are so hit and miss... and odd Tonerite don't have any demos as far as I could see. I can see it working though, so not really doubting it, just don't need to spend anymore money right now lol

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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11789
    edited December 2015
    from Holland

    that big place
    "the fellowship of acoustics"
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11789
    it's now on a guitar

    the user manual suggests that a guitar can "fall asleep" if not retreated every so often
    I'm a bit skeptical about that
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  • ToneControl;901869" said:
    from Holland

    that big place"the fellowship of acoustics"
    Many thanks! Hope it works out

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71959
    the user manual suggests that a guitar can "fall asleep" if not retreated every so often
    I'm a bit skeptical about that
    I think that's also true - if a guitar is left in a case for a long time it can go back to sounding a bit dead at first when it's taken out.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Pmsl sorry I didn't get the memo
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  • Yeah fellowship of acoustics They got it out the door real fast should of been here a couple of days ago but their uk shipper has misrouted it twice hey ho christmad
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11789
    looking good so far

    the one I tried it on for 48 hours was no match for my favourite, and weaker in some ways than the other (larger) new one
    now it is close to the favourite, and makes the larger sister sound thin
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  • How's it going @ToneControl?

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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11789
    brucegill said:
    How's it going @ToneControl?

    it does work, you'd easily notice the difference

    it has transformed the new cedar-top already
    it was a long way behind my favourite, now it's very close, and the difference now is probably down to the rosewood vs Mahogany sides and back

    I have tried it on a older guitar, and it made a difference

    I am now trying it on a new mahogany/spruce slope-shouldered dread, it has made a difference already, about 30% of the way through the treatment

    I read it works on resonator cones too.
    I plan to try it on semis and hollowbodies next after the acoustics


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