The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

Heartfeltdawn

Chalky said:

Your belief in apolitical "independent experts" is plain foolish. Such people simply do not exist. Sure there are experts. There are no independent experts. 

http://orig01.deviantart.net/dae5/f/2007/196/7/2/i_want_to_believe_wallpaper_by_pencilshade.png

chillidoggy

Bridgehouse said:

chillidoggy said:

We can all breathe easy, Diane Abbott will be fine, she's announced that she has type 42 diabetes.

Isn't that an old destroyer??

Diane Abbott or the ship?

Sporky

Bridgehouse said:

chillidoggy said:

We can all breathe easy, Diane Abbott will be fine, she's announced that she has type 42 diabetes.

Isn't that an old destroyer??

Yeah, but she meant the Type 45.

ICBM

Official: Tory voters are old and uneducated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40331136

But still much more likely to vote than the young and educated. If young people had voted in the same numbers as the old, Corbyn would be in No.10 with an overwhelming majority.

So who is really stupid?

Sporky

ICBM said:

So who is really stupid?

Is it everyone?

ToneControl

ICBM said:

Official: Tory voters are old and uneducated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40331136

But still much more likely to vote than the young and educated. If young people had voted in the same numbers as the old, Corbyn would be in No.10 with an overwhelming majority.

So who is really stupid?

This article is very badly flawed with respect to any causal link with voting tory based on education received:

they claim:

"Alongside age, education has become one of the key electoral demographic dividing lines."
Ipsos Mori gave the Tories a whopping 17-point lead among people with no qualifications - and a seven point lead with voters educated to below degree level.
But it said Labour had a 15-point lead among graduates (YouGov gave Labour a 17-point lead here).

whereas over 40% of young voters have a "degree":

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160105160709/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census-analysis/local-area-analysis-of-qualifications-across-england-and-wales/sty-qualification-levels.html

Over 4 in 10 People Aged 25 to 34 had a Degree Level or Above Qualification
Part of 2011 Census Analysis, Local Area Analysis of Qualifications Across England and Wales Release
Released: 07 March 2014

Those aged 65 and over were more likely to have no qualifications than the other age groups
Over half of the population aged 65 and over (52.9%) had no qualifications. This was the only age group with a higher proportion of people reporting no qualifications as opposed to at least one qualification. 

yet the proportion of those over 67 with a degree will be less than 3.4%

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/features/participation-rates-now-we-are-50/2005873.article

In 1950, just 3.4 per cent of young people went to university, so today’s participation rate vividly illustrates how higher education has moved from the margins to centre stage in British public life. What is more, this is a shift that has taken place within the lifetime of many scholars working today.

Therefore you could easily extrapolate that most Tory voters will not have a degree by the tory-voter age profile

It may well be the case that within an age group more graduates don't vote tory, but this article does not provide any information about that

I could have saved myself the effort, this link explains this:
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/13/how-britain-voted-2017-general-election/

It says

Amongst those with low educational qualifications (defined as GCSE or equivalent or below) the Conservatives beat Labour by 22%. However amongst those with high level educational qualifications (defined as degree-level or above) Labour led by 17 percentage points. Part of this relationship is down to age – the expansion of education means that, on average, the young have more qualifications than the old, although the Conservatives still have a “graduate problem” even after accounting for this.

 so it seems a grad is less likely to vote tory, but there is far less than a 17% difference 

Fretwired

ICBM said:

Official: Tory voters are old and uneducated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40331136

But still much more likely to vote than the young and educated. If young people had voted in the same numbers as the old, Corbyn would be in No.10 with an overwhelming majority.

So who is really stupid?

You for believing it ...

One fact. I'm nearly 60 and in my day very few people went to university. You could leave school and do an apprenticeship, go to a polytechnic and do an HND/HNC or a degree or you could study for professional exams in accountancy, law etc.

Fast forward and Blair thinks everyone should go to university and then introduces uni fees. So the young of today are more likely to go to university. Does this make older people stupid? No of course not - dumb statement. The education system and workplace was different.

I'm forced to work with a lot of thick graduates who can't write, spell or think for themselves without support from Google and know a lot of my old school friends who didn't get a degree but are very bright and have done well for themselves.

No more lazy stereotypes please ....

Sporky

Fretwired said:

I'm forced to work with a lot of thick graduates who can't write, spell or think for themselves without support from Google and know a lot of my old school friends who didn't get a degree but are very bright and have done well for themselves.

No more lazy stereotypes please ....

Erm... irony?

Fretwired

Sporky said:

Fretwired said:

I'm forced to work with a lot of thick graduates who can't write, spell or think for themselves without support from Google and know a lot of my old school friends who didn't get a degree but are very bright and have done well for themselves.

No more lazy stereotypes please ....

Erm... irony?

No. Fact. I have a Cambridge graduate who pays me to write for her as she can't. I asked her how on earth she got a degree. I'm not complaining as it pays well.

This is old but things have got worse.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/higher/university-students-they-cant-write-spell-or-present-an-argument-479536.html

Octafish

Fretwired said:

Sporky said:

Fretwired said:

I'm forced to work with a lot of thick graduates who can't write, spell or think for themselves without support from Google and know a lot of my old school friends who didn't get a degree but are very bright and have done well for themselves.

No more lazy stereotypes please ....

Erm... irony?

No. Fact. I have a Cambridge graduate who pays me to write for her as she can't. I asked her how on earth she got a degree. I'm not complaining as it pays well.

This is old but things have got worse.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/higher/university-students-they-cant-write-spell-or-present-an-argument-479536.html

Wow, if that's the case just imagine how semi-literate those current school leavers who don't get into University must be  

Sporky

Fretwired said:

Sporky said:

Fretwired said:

I'm forced to work with a lot of thick graduates who can't write, spell or think for themselves without support from Google and know a lot of my old school friends who didn't get a degree but are very bright and have done well for themselves.

No more lazy stereotypes please ....

Erm... irony?

No. Fact. 

I was more pointing out the irony of your citing idiot graduates and genius school leavers, then complaining about lazy stereotypes.

It may sound obvious, but there are some bright graduates, and some thickos without any qualifications, and even a vast spectrum betwixt the two.

If we're allowing anecdata, I got a Masters' degree, and I am not world-class thick.

Drew_TNBD

Sporky said:

Fretwired said:

Sporky said:

Fretwired said:

I'm forced to work with a lot of thick graduates who can't write, spell or think for themselves without support from Google and know a lot of my old school friends who didn't get a degree but are very bright and have done well for themselves.

No more lazy stereotypes please ....

Erm... irony?

No. Fact. 

I was more pointing out the irony of your citing idiot graduates and genius school leavers, then complaining about lazy stereotypes.

It may sound obvious, but there are some bright graduates, and some thickos without any qualifications, and even a vast spectrum betwixt the two.

If we're allowing anecdata, I got a Masters' degree, and I am not world-class thick.

He's talking about people he knows though. Real people. Not stereotypes. No??

Clarky

Sporky said:

Fretwired said:

Sporky said:

Fretwired said:

I'm forced to work with a lot of thick graduates who can't write, spell or think for themselves without support from Google and know a lot of my old school friends who didn't get a degree but are very bright and have done well for themselves.

No more lazy stereotypes please ....

Erm... irony?

No. Fact. 

I was more pointing out the irony of your citing idiot graduates and genius school leavers, then complaining about lazy stereotypes.

It may sound obvious, but there are some bright graduates, and some thickos without any qualifications, and even a vast spectrum betwixt the two.

If we're allowing anecdata, I got a Masters' degree, and I am not world-class thick.

I don't have a Master's and I am

I think that completes the survey

Fretwired

Drew_TNBD said:

Sporky said:

Fretwired said:

Sporky said:

Fretwired said:

I'm forced to work with a lot of thick graduates who can't write, spell or think for themselves without support from Google and know a lot of my old school friends who didn't get a degree but are very bright and have done well for themselves.

No more lazy stereotypes please ....

Erm... irony?

No. Fact. 

I was more pointing out the irony of your citing idiot graduates and genius school leavers, then complaining about lazy stereotypes.

It may sound obvious, but there are some bright graduates, and some thickos without any qualifications, and even a vast spectrum betwixt the two.

If we're allowing anecdata, I got a Masters' degree, and I am not world-class thick.

He's talking about people he knows though. Real people. Not stereotypes. No??

Exactly ...

Sporky

Drew_TNBD said:

He's talking about people he knows though. Real people. Not stereotypes. No??

Real people can conform to stereotypes - and indeed the real people Fret cited do conform to stereotypes. The "educated people are thick" trope is well established.

Fretwired

Sporky said:

Fretwired said:

Sporky said:

Fretwired said:

I'm forced to work with a lot of thick graduates who can't write, spell or think for themselves without support from Google and know a lot of my old school friends who didn't get a degree but are very bright and have done well for themselves.

No more lazy stereotypes please ....

Erm... irony?

No. Fact. 

I was more pointing out the irony of your citing idiot graduates and genius school leavers, then complaining about lazy stereotypes.

It may sound obvious, but there are some bright graduates, and some thickos without any qualifications, and even a vast spectrum betwixt the two.

If we're allowing anecdata, I got a Masters' degree, and I am not world-class thick.

Did I say 'genius' .. no I didn't. They are people I know who are lawyers, accountants, motor mechanics, electricians etc. Ordinary people who aren't thick.

Clarky

I know Sporks and I know me

Fretwired

Sporky said:

Drew_TNBD said:

He's talking about people he knows though. Real people. Not stereotypes. No??

Real people can conform to stereotypes - and indeed the real people Fret cited do conform to stereotypes. The "educated people are thick" trope is well established.

Again you just twist things. I said people I work with .. you don't know them so you can't comment. It is my opinion backed up by what I am paid to do as a thick, uneducated old git.

Sporky

Fretwired said:

you don't know them so you can't comment

Sorry, I forgot again that this is your forum and you get to decide who's allowed to express an opinion and who isn't.

I find quite a bit of what you post interesting, but then you also do this a lot - claim something based on personal experience, refuse to back it up and insist we accept your anecdata without question or comment. When challenged you always get snarky. It's pretty tiresome.

Octafish

Fretwired said:

Sporky said:

Drew_TNBD said:

He's talking about people he knows though. Real people. Not stereotypes. No??

Real people can conform to stereotypes - and indeed the real people Fret cited do conform to stereotypes. The "educated people are thick" trope is well established.

Again you just twist things. I said people I work with .. you don't know them so you can't comment. It is my opinion backed up by what I am paid to do as a thick, uneducated old git.

Sure, but we can all cite our personal experiences, doesn't prove anything. I worked as line manager for 6 years and I was trained and involved in interviewing and recruitment for customer service work and generally the least self-aware/literatate of interviewees were school leavers with a handful of GCSEs, some of them had the handwriting of a 7 year old. Sure there were some dumb students/graduates, but they were usually the better bet.