Fender Licensed necks/bodies

shuikit

I recently contacted a website which used to sell necks for Strats and Teles didn't have any listed.  They replied to me saying this 

‘...Basically, Fender made contact and asked us to stop selling their licensed necks and bodies in the UK – long story short, once a neck has left the country of production (which is stipulated within Fenders License) it is no longer considered a licensed neck, and is seen, by Fender (and any legal eagle you’d care to ask), as an infringement on their trademark headstock shapes 

Obviously, came as a bit of a shock to ourselves and xxxxxxxx (who made our necks), but long story short – importing necks in Europe in any way shape or form (licensed or not) is illegal – and Fender are cracking the whip.

Obviously they’re well within their rights to limit where their products are sold, so we’ve obliged with their wishes...’

I asked the website and they said that they were happy for me to share this with the forum as long as they were not named.

Anyone else heard of this??

JookyChap

I had exactly the same conversation a few weeks ago and it went a little bit further - apparently the Fender party line is that Warmoth, Allparts, Mighty Mite etc. are only licensed within the U.S and shouldn't be supplying licensed necks/bodies to any company or individual outside of the States.

Which must have come as a shock to them.

However, they would only need to alter headstock shapes slightly to avoid the trademark, but obv. would lose the 'licensed by' tag.

It wouldn't be such a hardship if the Fender spare parts weren't overpriced shite, but end of the day it is their blah blah blah etc.

JookyChap

Sorry - re-read your post and you covered that - braindead

Forge

Wow...fender flexing their muscles again.

I have to say their policy is a whole lot of b''''''ks.

imalone

I like the implication that people would ship necks from the US to make cheap copies (though I suppose more likely they want to remove cover for infringing necks). Fingers crossed those current 'licensed' makers just start making ones that don't use Fender's trademark. Warmouth in particular have a focus on bespoke work, so it will be worth it to them to avoid losing customers.

JookyChap

I think Gibson did something similar with Warmoth and Warmoth just changed the headstock shape a wee bit, so I'd guess the same will happen.

Just depends what the income is from the licenses and how much clout that gives the licensees. None of them are going to roll up their tents though so it seems a short-sighted move.

Always weird to penalise the people doing it 'the right way' and paying a license fee, while ignoring the thousands coming from asia that give them no revenue at all.

usedtobe

Excuse my ignorance... 

So, there are official 'made by Fender' replacement bodies and necks, which can be sold anywhere... 'Licensed by' bodies and necks with the correct shapes, that can only be sold in the country of production (US)... And other stuff that fits the neck/pocket, with a slightly different shapes that keeps the manufacturers on the right side of the law, that can be bought and sold, anywhere..?

Do any UK makers have official licenses, or do we not have the 'licensed by' option?

Odd.

Forge

One point against this decision is that importing licensed part actually allows us to make expensive copies...not cheap ones.

[Deleted User]

I don't believe that's the correct wording based on the conversations I've had with Warmoth in the past.

The licensed sellers are they only ones who can sell them, eg: Warmoth cannot supply joe the builder to re-sell necks.

the licensed sellers can sell them anywhere in the world, eg: when I've bought one from Warmoth in the USA and had it shipped to the UK, this is fine as it's a USA purchase, and shipped to the UK, they could not open a UK Warmoth shop and sell direct from there.

that was how it was explained to me.

ThePrettyDamned

darcym said:

I don't believe that's the correct wording based on the conversations I've had with Warmoth in the past.

The licensed sellers are they only ones who can sell them, eg: Warmoth cannot supply joe the builder to re-sell necks.

the licensed sellers can sell them anywhere in the world, eg: when I've bought one from Warmoth in the USA and had it shipped to the UK, this is fine as it's a USA purchase, and shipped to the UK, they could not open a UK Warmoth shop and sell direct from there.

that was how it was explained to me.

So, provided we purchase from USA and import, it's licensed? 

But a US supplier cannot sell to a distributor in the UK because it will no longer be licensed.  Seems daft.  As has been mentioned, this does nothing to the many cheap Asian neck copies coming in that don't give Fender a penny.  

And some of them are very good, too, with lovely one piece flame necks coming in pretty cheap.  

[Deleted User]

the asian ones suck, I'd rather pay to buy from a trusted source,

but yes, thats as I understand it, they are licensed to the USA company, which may not stock anyone else, or sell outside of the USA - but they can "ship outside" of the USA

ThePrettyDamned

darcym said:

the asian ones suck, I'd rather pay to buy from a trusted source,

but yes, thats as I understand it, they are licensed to the USA company, which may not stock anyone else, or sell outside of the USA - but they can "ship outside" of the USA

The nut on mine was awful, a small piece of cheese really, but it's a comfy C profile and a one piece flamed maple.  Fretwork was lovely, just needed a polish - no sharp edges, and the truss rod is completely smooth in use.

Actually, it's flat-out beautiful.  And Asian. 

So I think *some* Asian ones suck, and yes, I'd rather buy from a trusted source (I actually picked this one up from the classifieds, otherwise it would be a made in UK job from someone who knows their onions) but it's a beautiful neck, well made, stable and good looking.  Heel access truss rod is the only thing I'd change.

If Fender found out who it is that made this neck and licensed the factory, they could charge more and it would still be good value.

Not sure if every neck from the production line comes off the same, but if you had this neck, you'd be happy.  

dindude

Funny that Fender have just started releasing their own replacement parts to the rest of the world. Coincidental I'm sure.

ThePrettyDamned

dindude said:

Funny that Fender have just started releasing their own replacement parts to the rest of the world. Coincidental I'm sure.

Very expensive, too.

The point I was trying to get across was that, while fender are making it more difficult for us to get licensed parts (some folks won't want the hassle of importing) they are losing money and pushing some people into buying import necks.

Licensed would only bother me if I was putting it on an original body, and even then, assuming it's a player guitar and not one to flip on, I wouldn't be fussed.  But the idea is that it guarantees a level of quality and fitting, and it's a real shame that they could be harder to get over here.

Unless you pay through the nose for a proper Fender one.  I'm with @Darcym to be honest - I'd rather pay more and guarantee a level of quality, but that doesn't mean rip myself off.  Warmoth necks are well priced, especially the 'plain' ones.  And licensed, too.  But I'm sure there are folks who will be more likely to buy an unlicensed (and potentially poor quality, ill fitting) neck from a cheaper outlet.  And that'll leave a sour taste in the mouth for sure...

imalone

ThePrettyDamned said:

Warmoth necks are well priced, especially the 'plain' ones.  And licensed, too.  But I'm sure there are folks who will be more likely to buy an unlicensed (and potentially poor quality, ill fitting) neck from a cheaper outlet.  And that'll leave a sour taste in the mouth for sure...

And folks who aren't interested in ordering from the US. Not an objection to US made stuff, but the unpredictability of dealing with import charges and international couriers.

GuitarMonkey

imalone said:

And folks who aren't interested in ordering from the US. Not an objection to US made stuff, but the unpredictability of dealing with import charges and international couriers.

Not to mention the hassle if you need to send it back...

AlanP

Warmoth publishes it's license agreement with Fender as a pdf from this page:

http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/FenderLicense.aspx

A relevant (and possibly worrying) section says:

"8)   FMIC reserves its rights to enforce .... (snip) ... against anyone who places or who knowingly participates in the placement of Replacement Necks on guitars or basses not made or sold by FMIC ..." (etc).

The next section is "Termination for Breach"

"9)    In the event either Warmoth or FMIC breaches .... (snip) ... in which event this Agreement shall terminate ..." (etc).

I read this as Warmoth cannot sell such necks if they know that they will be used to assemble non-Fender made instruments (as they might be said to be "participating"), at risk of termination...

So personally, I really like Warmoth necks - you can order pretty much exactly what you want... and (from my experience) it will be excellent right out of the box.  Unless I were trying to sort out a "vintage correct" instrument (and I can't think that I would ever be doing that), I wouldn't really care what the headstock looks like (as long as it were practical, and not too pointy or whacky).

So generally, I would be very pleased to be able to buy non-Fender style headstocks - particularly if they cost a bit less...  Warmoth do sell necks with various "Warmoth" headstocks, but not in the "Vintage Modern" style (simple single head-end adjusting truss rod, etc), but only in the "Warmoth Pro" necks, which have the fancy double, side-adjusting truss-rod, and they seem to be *more* costly, not less...

GuitarMonkey

So if you buy a Stratocaster neck and body from Warmoth, they are probably in breach?

AlanP

I guess it depends *if they know*...

... so if FMIC informs them that someone is building 'copies', then they are pretty much obliged to stop supplying them... (otherwise, I would guess that they *just don't ask*...) 

streethawk

Redolent of all 'free' trade practices.

There's no such thing, in fact it's highly protectionist for the big boys.

Same with patent laws.

That's me going off on a tangent, not a criticism of Fender per se. 

AlanP

I do remember buying *something* Fender licensed that had a slip of paper *inside* it (ie. only visible *after* purchase) that said something to the effect "This is a Fender licensed part, and may only be used on a genuine Fender guitar" - however, I cannot for the life of me remember what it was....

... however, I am amused that you can get genuine Fender neck-plates, complete with "Fender Corona" or the big "F" logo, from AxesRus, etc., without any such restrictions...  I often use these on my self-builds (and pay the extra £10 over a generic part) just so I can point at is as being "the only genuine Fender piece of the entire guitar".

... and no, I don't put Fender logos on the head-stock - nor any other logo in fact - I can't be arsed....