The Fractal Thread

thomasw88

thanks for the response chaps!

There will be a sound guy on tonight, so I'll let him sort it out, but I think long term I'll move the cuts to the output or the cab blocks.

 I did a rehearsal recording and listening back to it sounds not bad actually.   Bits here and there could do with some tweaks but its  not miles off.  

I do like that Dirty Shirley amp, seems to cut through quite nicely.

FarleyUK

I love how we each had different ways you can do it - one of the great things about Fractal units!

I would also say - don't get too hung up on it, as you'll end up tweaking things constantly and not playing the guitar and enjoying the moment; it's a very easy trap to fall into.

DavusPG

FarleyUK said:

Personally, I use an EQ block at the end of the chain to do my cuts - lo and hi cut, and also a couple of surgical notches at around 2k and 4k I believe to remove some nasty frequencies. My hi and lo cuts tend to be around 110Hz and 6.5kHz at 12dB.

Interesting topic as over the past couple of days I've been messing with various EQs after complaining of a low frequency boom at rehearsal and accusing our bassist, only to discover it was me

thomasw88

FW10 now out for the FM9.  Includes the Barber gain changer (Paradigm shifter) drive pedal as well as lots of other stuff!

FarleyUK

DavusPG said:

FarleyUK said:

Personally, I use an EQ block at the end of the chain to do my cuts - lo and hi cut, and also a couple of surgical notches at around 2k and 4k I believe to remove some nasty frequencies. My hi and lo cuts tend to be around 110Hz and 6.5kHz at 12dB.

Interesting topic as over the past couple of days I've been messing with various EQs after complaining of a low frequency boom at rehearsal and accusing our bassist, only to discover it was me

Here's a 'tone example' from the gig at the weekend; two stereo amps (I believe the 1970 Plexi and the 6CA7 Plexi) hard panned into stereo IRs (one is the ML Reflex Greenback 57-a, the other is a ML 4x12 H75 57) and also using a Geminus pedal to enhance the stereo field:

FarleyUK

I'm feeling torn and slightly frustrated, and I could do with some advice; I've been happily going direct to FoH for years, and it seems fine; but having tried the AFX3 via a cab, I really want to try stereo cabs live.

My concern is that it's going to be up to the sound bloke to decide the best spot for micing the cabs - and he's not the best sound engineer in the world.

I guess I could just take an output after the amp block into a cab on stage for a bit of 'oomph' and still go direct to FoH...

How is everyone else managing their live setup?

ZenRigsMan

FarleyUK said:

I'm feeling torn and slightly frustrated, and I could do with some advice; I've been happily going direct to FoH for years, and it seems fine; but having tried the AFX3 via a cab, I really want to try stereo cabs live.

My concern is that it's going to be up to the sound bloke to decide the best spot for micing the cabs - and he's not the best sound engineer in the world.

I guess I could just take an output after the amp block into a cab on stage for a bit of 'oomph' and still go direct to FoH...

How is everyone else managing their live setup?

You have the power in the III to split routing pretty much however you want. Give FOH their direct feed and just split off to give you the sound you want on stage to be able to enjoy it and play well!

I have a mono feed going to FOH that I don't worry about at all, a stereo feed for IEMs and a mono one to an on-stage FRFR if I want an extra kick for feedback. Dead easy to do and you get all the benefits of direct to FOH as well as your own tone-world to play with and tweak.

Roland

FarleyUK said: ... How is everyone else managing their live setup?

Output 2 provides a stereo feed to FoH. If necessary we can tap a feed to a digital desk which gives personalised IEM mixes. That way we’re not dependent on the FoH team for monitoring. On Saturday FoH suddenly cut the monitors mid song. They were trying to stop feedback from an open mic, and made the wrong choice…

Output 1 goes to a Matrix Q12 which sits behind me, and provides some a level of acoustic coupling for the guitar. It means that I can control the on-stage guitar volume to some extent. It also provides sound immediately in front of the stage, between the PA speakers, which is often a dead spot. I chose Output 1 for this because the volume knob is easier to get to in an emergency. 

I’ve thought about using stereo monitoring, but the practicalities persuade me otherwise. Extra car space, when I’ve already got PA and lights. Floor space in small playing areas. If the speakers are side by side the I’m not going to hear much stereo spread. If I put the 2nd speaker by the bass player then I don’t hear it, and he can’t control the volume. 

welshboyo

I’m on FM9 Turbo - run Out1 LR into a pair of FRFR cabs (Fender FR10) which sit behind me and run Out2 LR to FOH - using the onstage pair as a bit of stage fill really - never been happier

Beexter

I run my FM9 out to a Fender FR10 via XLR and then take the XLR out from the FR10 to the desk. For the venues we play, the FR10 is carrying most of the sound with the PA feed adding a little to the main mix to fill out. It feels very close to the experience of having an amp behind me in a traditional "backline" setup.
I don't use stereo live as it's only going to sound right to anyone standing/dancing in a perfect position to benefit from it.
I've been playing variants of a modeller+FRFR solution since the Pod kidney bean came out and this is by far the most enjoyable setup. It's a breeze for anyone running sound and still gives me control of my stage sound.

thomasw88

Beexter said:

I run my FM9 out to a Fender FR10 via XLR and then take the XLR out from the FR10 to the desk. For the venues we play, the FR10 is carrying most of the sound with the PA feed adding a little to the main mix to fill out. It feels very close to the experience of having an amp behind me in a traditional "backline" setup.
I don't use stereo live as it's only going to sound right to anyone standing/dancing in a perfect position to benefit from it.
I've been playing variants of a modeller+FRFR solution since the Pod kidney bean came out and this is by far the most enjoyable setup. It's a breeze for anyone running sound and still gives me control of my stage sound.

Out of interest why don't you use output 1 for FOH and copy output 2 to your FRFR?  

Beexter

thomasw88 said:

Beexter said:

I run my FM9 out to a Fender FR10 via XLR and then take the XLR out from the FR10 to the desk. For the venues we play, the FR10 is carrying most of the sound with the PA feed adding a little to the main mix to fill out. It feels very close to the experience of having an amp behind me in a traditional "backline" setup.
I don't use stereo live as it's only going to sound right to anyone standing/dancing in a perfect position to benefit from it.
I've been playing variants of a modeller+FRFR solution since the Pod kidney bean came out and this is by far the most enjoyable setup. It's a breeze for anyone running sound and still gives me control of my stage sound.

Out of interest why don't you use output 1 for FOH and copy output 2 to your FRFR?  

Two reasons -
1) I run a Boss SY-200 in a "loop" using Output 2 & Input 2.

2) The FR10 is at the back of the stage so running an XLR out from the FR10 means one less cable running from the front of stage ( handy for keeping out of the way of enthusiastic audience members...) As the XLR is a direct through, I can also adjust the volume of the FR10 if I want, without affecting the signal going to the PA.

firepaulmusic

Discovered a great way to amplify my FM9 into a guitar cab for on stage volume. I bypassed the cab on my output 3 and went into the return of my Laney Iron heart 15 Studio head. The beauty of this is the amp has a post master tone control which easily shapes the cab sound removing any harshness that might be there. It sounded epic tonight and plenty of volume with my output 3 master at 0Db and the unit output control at around 4 o'clock.

willo

firepaulmusic said:

Discovered a great way to amplify my FM9 into a guitar cab for on stage volume. I bypassed the cab on my output 3 and went into the return of my Laney Iron heart 15 Studio head. The beauty of this is the amp has a post master tone control which easily shapes the cab sound removing any harshness that might be there. It sounded epic tonight and plenty of volume with my output 3 master at 0Db and the unit output control at around 4 o'clock.

Is that Laney the rack unit one? Because I have been thinking about buying one and doing something similar after seeing the guitarist in one of those big YouTube cover bands doing something similar with his Helix (Hindley Street Social Club).

What kind of music are you playing and into what cab? And is the signal chain something like:

FX (Fractal) - Amp (Fractal) - Delays/reverb (Fractal) - Laney - Physical cab?

sweepy

I run mine through a HB GPA 400 amp and a pair of 2x12’s, one Marshal and one PRS, I never got on with the FRFR approach at all, this setup feels more “organic” 

firepaulmusic

willo said:

firepaulmusic said:

Discovered a great way to amplify my FM9 into a guitar cab for on stage volume. I bypassed the cab on my output 3 and went into the return of my Laney Iron heart 15 Studio head. The beauty of this is the amp has a post master tone control which easily shapes the cab sound removing any harshness that might be there. It sounded epic tonight and plenty of volume with my output 3 master at 0Db and the unit output control at around 4 o'clock.

Is that Laney the rack unit one? Because I have been thinking about buying one and doing something similar after seeing the guitarist in one of those big YouTube cover bands doing something similar with his Helix (Hindley Street Social Club).

What kind of music are you playing and into what cab? And is the signal chain something like:

FX (Fractal) - Amp (Fractal) - Delays/reverb (Fractal) - Laney - Physical cab?

Yes, it's the 2u rack one. You can pick them up for under £300. I nearly sold it to a mate the other day, glad I tried this first! My full sound is from the Fractal with amp, compressor, wah, drives, chorus, delays, reverbs. Output 1 with cab SIM to FOH as usual. Output 3 guitar cable to return of amp into a 1x12 Marshall cab. Small and very gutsy.
We are a 3-piece rocky covers band so I have to have a few different sounds. Beatles to ZZ Top...
I've also got the Laney IRT60 watt head. Imagining this through a 4x12...

firepaulmusic

sweepy said:

I run mine through a HB GPA 400 amp and a pair of 2x12’s, one Marshal and one PRS, I never got on with the FRFR approach at all, this setup feels more “organic” 

...my experience exactly. I'm so relieved to find this approach really works well. It's great to have the on stage amp feel back.

willo

firepaulmusic said:

Yes, it's the 2u rack one. You can pick them up for under £300. I nearly sold it to a mate the other day, glad I tried this first! My full sound is from the Fractal with amp, compressor, wah, drives, chorus, delays, reverbs. Output 1 with cab SIM to FOH as usual. Output 3 guitar cable to return of amp into a 1x12 Marshall cab. Small and very gutsy.
We are a 3-piece rocky covers band so I have to have a few different sounds. Beatles to ZZ Top...
I've also got the Laney IRT60 watt head. Imagining this through a 4x12...

Excellent, thank you mate. They seemed like a bit of a hidden gem when I last looked at them. Quite a bit of power, portable, and a good price. Great to hear your real world experience!

firepaulmusic

willo said:

firepaulmusic said:

Yes, it's the 2u rack one. You can pick them up for under £300. I nearly sold it to a mate the other day, glad I tried this first! My full sound is from the Fractal with amp, compressor, wah, drives, chorus, delays, reverbs. Output 1 with cab SIM to FOH as usual. Output 3 guitar cable to return of amp into a 1x12 Marshall cab. Small and very gutsy.
We are a 3-piece rocky covers band so I have to have a few different sounds. Beatles to ZZ Top...
I've also got the Laney IRT60 watt head. Imagining this through a 4x12...

Excellent, thank you mate. They seemed like a bit of a hidden gem when I last looked at them. Quite a bit of power, portable, and a good price. Great to hear your real world experience!

Here's what is sounded like close to the stage..
 https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1YmZekbyhf/

willo

Sounds great mate!