OH FFFFFFFS !!!!!!!! ARRRGGHHH !!!!

Paul_C

I drove along the M4 from Swindon and down the M5 to Exeter (and back) today - mostly without exceeding 70 - no trouble at all apart from one half-wit who cut me up, and that was after I'd left the motorway.

Myranda

This one time, I rode down the B2116.

I think I was doing some miles per hour... boom.

ICBM

TTony said:

Sporky said:

At 30 in 5th there's still a fair bit of go. And a down change takes almost no time. Either way, at 30 in a 30 zone you shouldn't be accelerating to get out of trouble!

Agreed, you shouldn't, but ...

The one (touch wood) accident that I've had, was a 30:30 head-on collision.  I couldn't get out of the way because I was in 5th, doing 30 and hitting the accelerator did nothing.

If I'd had a couple of seconds, it could have been side:side rather than head-on.

Accelerating wouldn't have gained you a couple of seconds.

I used to think you were right but having seen a lot of calculations and demonstrations, I now think the "accelerating out of trouble" idea is a myth. About the only time it would ever be true is if you were on a road with nothing in front of you, and something was about to drive into the back of you at high speed. Otherwise, all it does is mean you're going faster when you hit whatever it was you were going to hit anyway.

What would have happened if you'd done an emergency stop instead? (As you're supposed to!)

goldtop said:

Also - a 30mph urban area is exactly the location you shouldn't be spending much time looking at the speedo. The density of traffic, incidence of traffic conflicts and number of much more vulnerable road users are all far higher than on roads with higher speed limits.

You don't need to look at it often, once you get used to the sound of the engine it's easy to stay at or just under 30 without checking much. To be honest I do find it slightly easier in 4th than 5th - the car's natural smooth turnover speed in 5th is more like 33 than 30 unless the road is dead flat or very slightly downhill - but 3rd is way too much, the engine is racing, too responsive and it's actually much easier to accidentally accelerate to faster than 30. Of course the engine power and gear ratios may be different in our cars.

Myranda

If you're in too high a gear you lose engine breaking too, so there's a reduced amount of stoppingness...

So there's accelerating going faster and accelerating going slower... 

Fretwired

TTony said:

Sporky said:

I'm usually in 5th at 30mph!

That can actually be quite dangerous.  

Your revs are low, and your engine is unresponsive.  If you need to accelerate quickly (to avoid a situation that you'd like to avoid), you won't be able to.

My wife's brand new Mercedes A-class has a six speed gearbox and in fifth at 30 mph there's plenty of umph and it only has a 1600cc engine. It's surprisingly quick for such large car.

I'd be happy to see speeds of 80 mph on motorways and 20 mph in built up residential areas. Where I live there are a number of roads, primarily near schools or routes kid walk to school, which have a 20 mph limit.

Sporky

Myranda said:

If you're in too high a gear you lose engine breaking too, so there's a reduced amount of stoppingness...

The engine is not there to slow the car down! Brake pads are far more replaceable and far more effective.

Phil_aka_Pip

Sporky said:

Myranda said:

If you're in too high a gear you lose engine breaking too, so there's a reduced amount of stoppingness...

The engine is not there to slow the car down! Brake pads are far more replaceable and far more effective.

but if you take your boot off the throttle you expect the vehicle to slow down - except that in some of the modern ones it doesn't. On some older British motorbikes if you shut the throttle quick it would almost send you over the handlebars. Youngsters may neither expect nor appreciate engine braking but a lot of us older types do.

Sporky

I understand engine braking, I just don't think it should be used as an evasive tactic! I've been driving long enough to remember (but not fondly) manual chokes. Also wondering what the sixth gear was for the first time I met one.

Van_Hayden

So how many people get pissed off when you get overtaken in a 30 doing 30?

Three times today. The fourth time the van behind pulled put just as I passed the end of the restriction so he got left looking stupid on the wrong side of the road. Probably not legal on my side that manouver..

I've started using the speed limiter on my aged merc, quite handy on open roads set at 65 in a 60. Keeps me out of trouble.

Not sure on 5/6 at 30 though. 4th yes. Although I don't get much of a choice in an auto. The bit of engine braking is good in an emergency in 3rd, the car will begin to slow before you hit the anchors. Although my fuel bill is high enough...

The wife has just done a defensive driving course. I'll have to ask what the bloke recommended.

Sporky

The ROSPA examiner didn't comment on 5th at 30...

bertie

nah, cant be bothered

chillidoggy

Emp_Fab said:

I could always just change the plates to P165 SUK, and use a yellow screw in the middle of the 6.

PEN 15 would be far better!

mike_l

chillidoggy said:

PEN 15 would be far better!

I believe Mr Steve Parrish (The Ex-motorbike racing mentalist top-bloke) owns that plate........

Phil_aka_Pip

best plate I ever saw was R50WLS ... presumably he'd been beaten to R50LES

stickyfiddle

4th/5th at 30 depends on the car. A small 5-gear petrol won't enjoy 5th at 30, but a 6 or 7 speed torquey diesel would be absolutely fine.

Accelerating out of trouble is definitely a thing, but only really on motorways where gaps are developing and changing all the time. If someone's playing silly buggers around you then sometimes accelerating away from them is the best thing to do. But it's very rarely any use in town. At 30 there's no substitute for reading the road and anticipating anything that could go wrong so it's not a surprise when anything abnormal happens. 

ICBM

Engine braking is irrelevant if you really need to slow down in a hurry - the brakes are at least tens of times more effective. You can easily get to the point where the ABS kicks in even on a dry road if you stand on them hard, and it's impossible to do any better no matter what the engine is doing. It *might* have given you a tiny bit more control on an old car with crap brakes, but definitely not on anything modern.

Where engine braking is useful is to stop the car 'running away' on a downhill, then it gives better control to drop a gear than to just ride on the brakes alone.

Just an aside about gears and braking, which is also a hang-over from the old days but which I still think is very important - why does almost no-one leave the car in gear when they're parked? It's a very effective backup brake if the handbrake fails. Every case you hear of where the handbrake fails or a child or dog accidentally releases it and the car rolls away wouldn't have happened if the car was in gear. My driving instructor taught me never to trust the handbrake alone - always leave it in 1st, or reverse if the car is facing downhill.

Emp_Fab

Right... there is too much use of the word 'breaking' here.  It's braking.  If you cant spell it right then how do you suppose to slow down youre car ?

Anyway... talking of funny plates...  one of my exes used to work in the 'cherished marks' dept of the DVLA.  Part of her job was to think of rude number plates and enter them into the computer as 'never to be issued' numbers.  They called them 'skid marks'.

Van_Hayden

Damn auto correct is my excuse.

boogieman

Phil_aka_Pip;18181" said:

best plate I ever saw was R50WLS ... presumably he'd been beaten to R50LES

My neighbour had R50ULS on his 4x4.

randomhandclaps

 

Emp_Fab said:

Right... there is too much use of the word 'breaking' here.  It's braking.  If you cant spell it right then how do you suppose to slow down youre car ?

 

But presumably if you don't brake in time then things start breaking?!