Top Wrapping a proper Burst

impmann

In one of the recent tedious threads about ‘bursts, someone claimed top wrapping a burst wasn’t needed due to the angles always being “right”.

Ive just watched the Rev B Gibbons playing Cheap Sunglasses on The Old Grey Whistle Test... playing Pearly Gates no less.

Oh look... top wrapped. 

Angles? Schmangles.

WezV

I have heard he strings his 50’s Moderne with the E, D and B strings top wrapped with the other 3 strung normally.












Maybe.   No one has ever seen it to tell me I am wrong

darthed1981

That the thing where you put the strings through the tailpiece backwards?

Bridgehouse

darthed1981 said:

That the thing where you put the strings through the tailpiece backwards?

Yep then past the tailpiece and endpin, right round the back and over the headstock.

Wiggle your hips and you sound like Noel Gallagher

meltedbuzzbox

Nothing wrong with top wrapping

That's right, I said it

ICBM

impmann said:

In one of the recent tedious threads about ‘bursts, someone claimed top wrapping a burst wasn’t needed due to the angles always being “right”.

Ive just watched the Rev B Gibbons playing Cheap Sunglasses on The Old Grey Whistle Test... playing Pearly Gates no less.

Oh look... top wrapped.

Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.



I doubt he would notice any difference with the rubber bands he strings it with anyway...

OilCityPickups

Bridgehouse said:

darthed1981 said:

That the thing where you put the strings through the tailpiece backwards?

Yep then past the tailpiece and endpin, right round the back and over the headstock.

Wiggle your hips and you sound like Noel Gallagher

And scratch the top of your tailpiece ... :-)

Danielsguitars

Personally i don't mind, makes the strings somehow feel easier but it was done mostly because they have a steep neck angle and definitely not needed if you sort that out, most of my builds are on the lower side, well enough to clear a 1/2inch ring and the pickups etc

Boromedic

I noticed on the recent Bonamassa rig video his Les Pauls were top wrapped as well.

Danielsguitars

Boromedic said:

I noticed on the recent Bonamassa rig video his Les Pauls were top wrapped as well.

It helps take the strain off those old bridges which can bend, i know a 58 that has the tailpiece raised a fair way to stop this happening, top wrapping achieves the same thing without raising the stop tail

Boromedic

Cool, thanks that makes total sense when you put it like that. 

Elwood

customkits said:

Boromedic said:

I noticed on the recent Bonamassa rig video his Les Pauls were top wrapped as well.

It helps take the strain off those old bridges which can bend, i know a 58 that has the tailpiece raised a fair way to stop this happening, top wrapping achieves the same thing without raising the stop tail

Does top wrapping put more stress on the posts?

skunkwerx

Elwood said:

customkits said:

Boromedic said:

I noticed on the recent Bonamassa rig video his Les Pauls were top wrapped as well.

It helps take the strain off those old bridges which can bend, i know a 58 that has the tailpiece raised a fair way to stop this happening, top wrapping achieves the same thing without raising the stop tail

Does top wrapping put more stress on the posts?

Short answer, yes. 


Creates a stronger turning force on them. 

Now science peoples, what causes this greater turning force? Am I right in thinking that there is a leverage effect going on through the post?
 If so is it because by top wrapping you are effectively shifting the load on the posts higher, thus giving a greater leverage force on the post?

My thinking is that the tension or pulling force on the posts has got to be the same whether top wrapping or not? Its just how and where that force is acting which will make it more effective? 


But would the added overall string length by top wrapping make any difference here? Granted its extra length after the bridge, but I can’t remember if that just works out to ‘feel’ like more or less tension on the string. 

Maybe Im over thinking this.. but now I’m curious because physics are great. Lol. 


http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/137747/stopbar-bushings-pulling-forward-should-i-be-worried#latest

ICBM

The string tension is not increased, but the turning moment on the posts is because the same force is applied further from the body, and it’s worse than simply raising the tailpiece because top-wrapping makes the tailpiece try to rotate.

It’s not usually an issue with Gibsons because the inserts are properly fitted very deep into the body, but it can be with some far-east copies. There’s someone here with a couple of Tokais which have started to pull the inserts out.

I wouldn’t really pay any attention to who else does it - it’s just a fashion at the moment. Some people do even when it’s totally unnecessary - the famous photo of Marc Bolan sitting in a field with his Les Paul shows it top-wrapped, but the bridge is so low it’s resting on the body... there are no height wheels. There must have been almost no break angle over the saddles at all - and I think you can hear that in his sound, which is quite honky and lacking sustain.

Yorkie

Apologies for fishing this thread out from the depths of the forum - am never too sure whether it’s better to re-use an old thread or create a new one. 

I just wanted to offer my thoughts on this: I have had a Les Paul clone for a bit less than a year, so I have been trying out some things I couldn’t do with my old strat. One of them was this ‘top-wrapping’ thing. 

From a physics perspective, it looked like a stupid idea. Pitch is determined by string (scale) length, thickness and tension. We’re not changing any of those, so why would bends be any easier? Also, I found it strange that you could get more sustain by leaking energy to a part of the string whose movement is not registered by the pickups. 

So, I have tried it. And well, it’s not working for me. I can’t “”feel”” any change in sustain, and bends are every bit as hard as they are on my Epiphone - same scale length, same string gauge, same tension, but fitted the standard way. And it looks silly. I guess I am not as cool as the famous people doing it. 

Not doing this again. 

Jon

ICBM

The only difference it makes is that it reduces the break angle at the bridge saddles, which can change the tone slightly, and if shallow enough will allow the strings to move forward over the saddles when you bend them, making them feel softer - but also potentially making them stick in a different position when you release, and thus out of tune.

Hopefully they haven’t nicked the back edge of the tailpiece, with just trying it once...

stonevibe

I've always top-wrapped my guitars and in 30 years plus, never had a single issue with it.

HandwrittenHero

I’ve moved to top wrapping my Les Paul, I’d say it did give a slinkier feel but I went up half a gauge and switched back from nickel plated to pure nickel at the same time so not exactly an objective comparison. No tuning issues but my Les Paul is really rock solid on that front. I feel I actually get less sustain, but it’s a Les Paul so it’s not exactly short of sustain to spare.

Big helpful tip, save the ball ends from the last set of strings you use. Clip the string off them and thread the new strings through them before putting into the tailpiece. Just shifts which part of the string is contacting on the sharp bend.

markj

Many yrs ago Joe Bonamassa invited me on his tour bus in Liverpool for nearly half an hour and we had a really good chat about guitars in general. He said he uses 11's on his Les Pauls and top wrapped them because it made the strings feel slinkier. Never tried it on mine, I've just never got around to it.

roberty

I think the extra string length accounts for the slight difference in feel when top wrapping. I have a Les Paul with a bigsby and a another with a wraparound bridge, this is an extreme example but the feel is very different between the two. The difference with top wrapping is subtle but it's there

designerseye88

I top wrap my replica and and it feels alot slinkier and means I use 10.5's rather than 10's - It's far nicer to play top wrapped. I wonder though whether the lesser break angle affects the tone / sustain? maybe a little but not enough for me to really go back to not top wrapping. 

Like wise I have a Bigsby on my 55 LP special and it plays way better than it being just a wraparound (Heresy I know!). It's slinkier and feels much more like a Les Paul to play.