Why is this chord sequence pleasing to me ?

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  • interesting topic and great effort for the explanation! I happen to post a similar topic. I wonder if that theory applies?

    http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/150959/whats-this-style-of-blues-called#latest
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24210
    @viz ; I also find myself drawn inexplicably to this piece - John Barry's 'The Beyondness of Things'.  Is there anything on the theory side that might explain this, like your excellent diagnosis of that first track?




    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24210
    @viz ;; I also find myself drawn inexplicably to this piece - John Barry's 'The Beyondness of Things'.  Is there anything on the theory side that might explain this, like your excellent diagnosis of that first track?


    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    Emp_Fab said:
    @viz ;; I also find myself drawn inexplicably to this piece - John Barry's 'The Beyondness of Things'.  Is there anything on the theory side that might explain this, like your excellent diagnosis of that first track?


    Hellooo :) well I love Barry but I find this a bit of an ugly progression - it sounds nice enough because it has horns and strings and a flute but the harmonies aren’t nearly as natural as in the other one. 

    It’s in C major initially and does that very lovely, immense I-v progression, with C major and G minor - I love that, you hear it a lot in space movies. Major tonic with a minor dominant. It’s very mixolydianish because the minor 3rd of the v chord is the minor 7th of the tonic. 

    Then it does that odd modulation from C to D - initially D major, though he then uses the bVI chord (Bb major), which is borrowed from D minor. Later on he modulates to D minor anyway. Anyhoo, whether he’s in D major or D minor, he uses the Bb. And sometimes he uses the Gm instead of the Bb (which is the iv of D minor) so he can then go up to V of D minor, which is the A7, ready for a resolution to D major (or D minor) - EXCEPT that the first time round he resolves it to the original C again, which I must say sounds bizarre to me! But later on he uses the A7 more conventionally and resolves to D minor. 

    And it carries on in the same spirit!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24210
    Thanks very much.  I can't pretend I understand much of it to be honest.  My knowledge of theory is shocking.  I was just interested to see if it had a 'magical hook' to it like the previous piece.
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited January 2020
    Theory is really easy - it’s just maths, language and hearing! I think any magic in this piece lies in the mellifluousness of the tune floating over those dodgy chord changes beneath. 

    If you want gorgeous tunes try this, check it out right until the last note!

    https://youtu.be/jManmjjwnTE


    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • viz said:
    Theory is really easy - it’s just maths, language and hearing! I think any magic in this piece lies in the mellifluousness of the tune floating over those dodgy chord changes beneath. 

    If you want gorgeous tunes try this, check it out right until the last note!

    https://youtu.be/jManmjjwnTE


    @viz Thanks for posting this video. I have a longstanding love of cello music, and am of such an age that I saw the great french cellist, Paul Tortelier, play on a number of occasions. I don't think I've been aware of these Rachmaninov pieces before, so this CD has just arrived, and is currently playing.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    viz said:
    Theory is really easy - it’s just maths, language and hearing! I think any magic in this piece lies in the mellifluousness of the tune floating over those dodgy chord changes beneath. 

    If you want gorgeous tunes try this, check it out right until the last note!

    https://youtu.be/jManmjjwnTE


    @viz Thanks for posting this video. I have a longstanding love of cello music, and am of such an age that I saw the great french cellist, Paul Tortelier, play on a number of occasions. I don't think I've been aware of these Rachmaninov pieces before, so this CD has just arrived, and is currently playing.
    Awesome wow Paul Tortelier

    Yes, Vocalise and the Romances are gorgeous aren’t they? (And obviously the cello sonata)
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • DominicDominic Frets: 16013
    All of this original explanation ,excluding the Rachmaninov ,is the perfect reason to listen to Baroque music -there is so much to learn from it .When I first went to jazz piano lessons the teacher simply asked if I listened to Bach ......I told him that I hated it and he said "then you will never play Jazz ....go and LISTEN "....that proved so true .
    From a time when there was no way to play chords on a piano and everything depended on Arpeggio ,figured Bass and mathematical progression .
     Any Fugue is a perpetual striving for extended resolution.
     The "Well Tempered Clavier "will investigate each key in such way .
    The C minor is my favourite .
    Chopin came to elaborate on this in the preludes having the later benefit of polyphony from a piano and thus being able to stretch harmony to the romantic degree.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited February 2020
    Dominic said:
    All of this original explanation ,excluding the Rachmaninov ,is the perfect reason to listen to Baroque music -there is so much to learn from it .When I first went to jazz piano lessons the teacher simply asked if I listened to Bach ......I told him that I hated it and he said "then you will never play Jazz ....go and LISTEN "....that proved so true .
    From a time when there was no way to play chords on a piano and everything depended on Arpeggio ,figured Bass and mathematical progression .
     Any Fugue is a perpetual striving for extended resolution.
     The "Well Tempered Clavier "will investigate each key in such way .
    The C minor is my favourite .
    Chopin came to elaborate on this in the preludes having the later benefit of polyphony from a piano and thus being able to stretch harmony to the romantic degree.
    Indeed, and even Rachmaninov loved playing Bach, particularly the partitas

    and he dabbled in Jazz - check out his paganini variations, no. 10
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24210
    So, what about virtual lessons Teech ?  @Viz
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    Emp_Fab said:
    So, what about virtual lessons Teech ?  @Viz
    Always up for that and am giving lessons to quite a few on here and elsewhere - PM me!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • Something I find lacking in a lot of music theory books, is the actual practical element, i.e. how do I actually write an interesting song with different approaches.
    i.e. I have some great lyrics, how do I turn these into a great and interesting melody, then how do I harmonise and then make adjustments to my melody so I have access to more harmonically rich chords, then examples of changing the mood for the chorus. Rick Beato touches on it in some of his song writing videos, but it all assumes you already have a great melody or a great chord sequence in place.
    It's like knowing all the rules of Physics and then being told, now design an aeroplane. Where the hell do you start.

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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited February 2021
    Something I find lacking in a lot of music theory books, is the actual practical element, i.e. how do I actually write an interesting song with different approaches.
    i.e. I have some great lyrics, how do I turn these into a great and interesting melody, then how do I harmonise and then make adjustments to my melody so I have access to more harmonically rich chords, then examples of changing the mood for the chorus. Rick Beato touches on it in some of his song writing videos, but it all assumes you already have a great melody or a great chord sequence in place.
    It's like knowing all the rules of Physics and then being told, now design an aeroplane. Where the hell do you start.



    Ok. I think there are two main methods, and maybe a pincer movement to get the benefit of both:

    Firstly, what mood do you want to create, and can you find a harmonic progression and tune that describes, or emulates, that mood? And/or:

    What songs do you know or licks have you been enjoying playing, that sound really cool and would work?

    It’s a bit of a Venn diagram, and somewhere in between those two approaches lies something amazing and magical, and maybe even totally unique and original to your voice. 

    When I think of songwriting I always think of Creep. It’s so simple yet seems to have this originality and freshness, while at the same time describing its subject matter perfectly. It seems silly to heap too many praises on so obvious and simple a song, yet it has an artistry about it, and you’d have to say that, like it or loathe it, it’s probably a masterpiece. 

    They found the overlap of the Venn diagram. Do what they did
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • I think my problem is I'm not a singer in any shape or form. 
    My approach to guitar playing my whole life has been, how do I improvise over this chord sequence and have learnt theory from that point of view and my fingers just end up doing the talking without any thought process.
    Now however I'm interesting in writing music/songs and am having to go at things from a blank piece of paper so to speak.
    One thing I was thinking of doing is to take my lyrics and just tap out the natural rhythm on a single note into say guitar pro.
    That will give me the timing. Then pick a mode and key and then move the notes up and down the stave until it sounds good and interesting.
    The harmonize using standard triads at first, then add extensions/sus chords/inversions, etc, adjusting the notes in the melody if need be. Throw in the odd borrowed Chord, secondary dominant, etc.
    I know it seem like a bit of a mathematical approach, but I would say I'm not a natural musician.  
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited February 2021
    Well, all artists use their innate abilities to speak with. If you’re structured and mathematical, your method will create something that’s doubtless very wonderful and unique to you, and that manages to say what you want it to say, and in the way you want to say it. After all, art is merely the “externalisation of emotion through creative and imaginative skill”, so who’s to say your method isn’t the right method for you, and for your audience too, if it helps you say what you want to say? Don’t forget to post what you come up with
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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