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NGD: Atkin The Forty Three

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  • Must admit I'm yet to change the strings as the elixirs just sound ever fresh! But I don't like the way they feel greasy. It's a beautiful guitar for sure, but the shoulders on the neck are slightly on the large side for me so it gives me a cramp a little bit, which I can't recall having with another guitar before. As it sounds so lush I'm sticking with it
    I had the LG47 and had the same problem with the neck! I thought it was because they’re 1 11/16” but now have a Martin in that size and don’t get cramp. Such a shame as I loved that guitar and the 43 was really nice too, but I just can’t play them for long periods. 
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11411
    edited February 2020
    brucegill said:
    Must admit I'm yet to change the strings as the elixirs just sound ever fresh! But I don't like the way they feel greasy. It's a beautiful guitar for sure, but the shoulders on the neck are slightly on the large side for me so it gives me a cramp a little bit, which I can't recall having with another guitar before. As it sounds so lush I'm sticking with it
    I had the LG47 and had the same problem with the neck! I thought it was because they’re 1 11/16” but now have a Martin in that size and don’t get cramp. Such a shame as I loved that guitar and the 43 was really nice too, but I just can’t play them for long periods. 

    Can you still go to Atkin and custom spec a guitar, or are they only going through dealers now they are bigger?  I'd quite like to spec one with a V neck like my HD28V.  I know it's probably not vintage correct for 1943 Gibson, but it's a great neck.
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  • I think you can custom spec via the dealer, though Alistair was always helpful on the phone. 
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  • Andy79Andy79 Frets: 888
    crunchman said:
    brucegill said:
    Must admit I'm yet to change the strings as the elixirs just sound ever fresh! But I don't like the way they feel greasy. It's a beautiful guitar for sure, but the shoulders on the neck are slightly on the large side for me so it gives me a cramp a little bit, which I can't recall having with another guitar before. As it sounds so lush I'm sticking with it
    I had the LG47 and had the same problem with the neck! I thought it was because they’re 1 11/16” but now have a Martin in that size and don’t get cramp. Such a shame as I loved that guitar and the 43 was really nice too, but I just can’t play them for long periods. 

    Can you still go to Atkin and custom spec a guitar, or are they only going through dealers now they are bigger?  I'd quite like to spec one with a V neck like my HD28V.  I know it's probably not vintage correct for 1943 Gibson, but it's a great neck.

    Vintage correct is difficult for War time Gibsons. 4 piece tops, maple backs, laminate, pretty much anything went. The earlier Js had a V so close enough 
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  • brucegill said:
    I had the LG47 and had the same problem with the neck! I thought it was because they’re 1 11/16” but now have a Martin in that size and don’t get cramp. Such a shame as I loved that guitar and the 43 was really nice too, but I just can’t play them for long periods. 
    That's actually reassuring to know as it means it's not just me! I just had a little jaunt down Denmark St and re-tried a Martin 00-28 and it felt much better to me. Tempted to try and trade the Atkin for a 00-28, chances of that happening are slim though! Could sell the Atkin, but there'd be a shortfall of £600 between that and a new 00-28. D'oh!
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  • Gorgeous guitar, would like to try one of these.
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  • brucegill said:
    I had the LG47 and had the same problem with the neck! I thought it was because they’re 1 11/16” but now have a Martin in that size and don’t get cramp. Such a shame as I loved that guitar and the 43 was really nice too, but I just can’t play them for long periods. 
    That's actually reassuring to know as it means it's not just me! I just had a little jaunt down Denmark St and re-tried a Martin 00-28 and it felt much better to me. Tempted to try and trade the Atkin for a 00-28, chances of that happening are slim though! Could sell the Atkin, but there'd be a shortfall of £600 between that and a new 00-28. D'oh!
    It really effected how long I could play for to be honest. And I had to have a few days off at times, and that sucks. I ended up with a Lowden after that LG, so 1 3/4” nut and still a reasonable sized neck - not had the problem since to be honest. Might flare up every now and then, but it was constant with the LG.

    think the 0028 have a 1 3/4” nut too? 

    I’d honestly assumed (stupidly) that I couldn’t play 1 11/16” anymore, so the Martin dread with The Modified Low Oval neck shape was an eye opener. I don’t get the problem with this at all. Though I do prefer 1 3/4” now to be honest. 

    I know it’s £600, but if it means you can play all the time, and not be in pain, I’d get the old credit card out ;) Your J43 should sell easy! Really popular and probably one of the best they have to offer to be honest. At least you got it in the sale - their new prices look like they’re going up...  
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  • I must admit that I've never really paid attention to nut widths before! Since I've been building a guitar I've become more in tune to the difference the shoulders on the neck make rather than thicknesses. If two necks are the same width and/or thickness, but one has more shoulder then it'll feel much bigger (I'm sure this isn't news to you!). The Atkin has pronounced shoulders on the neck (is that a D shape?) and I think that's the main difference that's making my hand stretch that extra bit further perhaps. The Martin felt more rounded to me today. It felt wider, but the roundness was more apparent and the extra width wasn't an issue. 

    Will have a ponder on it over the coming weeks and see what I arrive at. There's a large part of me that feels it'd be a shame to part with the Atkin, it's a beautiful guitar and I love the fact it's made in Kent where I'm from. 
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  • Jimbro66Jimbro66 Frets: 2418
    brucegill said:
    I had the LG47 and had the same problem with the neck! I thought it was because they’re 1 11/16” but now have a Martin in that size and don’t get cramp. Such a shame as I loved that guitar and the 43 was really nice too, but I just can’t play them for long periods. 
    That's actually reassuring to know as it means it's not just me! I just had a little jaunt down Denmark St and re-tried a Martin 00-28 and it felt much better to me. Tempted to try and trade the Atkin for a 00-28, chances of that happening are slim though! Could sell the Atkin, but there'd be a shortfall of £600 between that and a new 00-28. D'oh!
    This is interesting. I have an Atkin OM28-H Retrospective model and it has a very comfortable C profile neck. No issues at all with playing discomfort. In fact it’s the easiest playing acoustic guitar I have ever experienced and I’ve had quite a few nice acoustics. I wonder whether the D profile causing your problems is a feature of that particular model, The Forty Three?

    Rather than lose a lot of money on a sale/trade why not have a chat with Alister? He’s a very approachable guy and might perhaps suggest some solution. It could be worth a phone call if you particularly like the sound of your 43.
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  • Not in any way wanting to cut across the logic of this thread  (I have been through the gamut of hand/wrist problems over the years), but having played as a pro for the last (bloody hell !) 41 years, the best thing I have discovered is regular upper body, including arm and hand exercises. I have done these as part of my daily workout for the last 20 years and even though things tend to ache more and more I have no issues with changing from huge old necks to violin, regularly playing a longer than long scale guitar with 13's to a vintage 1-13/16 V neck with 12's. Playing an instrument is painful and challenging because you are asking your muscles to reform to doing something quite difficult. Basically, if you love the 43 ( and you should ) work towards letting it become part of you, that does not happen in hours ,weeks or, quite often, months. 
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7349
    I must admit that I've never really paid attention to nut widths before! Since I've been building a guitar I've become more in tune to the difference the shoulders on the neck make rather than thicknesses. If two necks are the same width and/or thickness, but one has more shoulder then it'll feel much bigger (I'm sure this isn't news to you!). The Atkin has pronounced shoulders on the neck (is that a D shape?) and I think that's the main difference that's making my hand stretch that extra bit further perhaps. The Martin felt more rounded to me today. It felt wider, but the roundness was more apparent and the extra width wasn't an issue. 

    Will have a ponder on it over the coming weeks and see what I arrive at. There's a large part of me that feels it'd be a shame to part with the Atkin, it's a beautiful guitar and I love the fact it's made in Kent where I'm from. 
    This is something I've long felt - the shape of the shoulder can have a huge bearing to how "big" a neck feels and how comfortable you'll find it 
    Red ones are better. 
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  • greggreg66greggreg66 Frets: 495
    A small update.... I finally got around to tweaking the truss rod and what a difference that made. Can't help but feel that the saddle could do with a very slight lowering as the truss adjustment is on the limit of fret buzz in places, so have tried to book it in with a guitar tech, but he's been out of action with C-19 and only just going back in to work. Still, it's been considerably more playable with the truss rod tweak and now I can't wait to get it to a tech to work a bit more magic. 

    The lacquer is so thin it marks so easily. Just as well it's a relic model!


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  • danishbacondanishbacon Frets: 2694
    I miss my atkin a bit
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  • EpsilonEpsilon Frets: 600
    When I tried your guitar in Ivor Mairants I remember discussing with the staff there that the saddle would benefit from lowering. It's quite easy to do with the right tools and a little patience (i.e make very small incremental reductions in height, re-install, try it out and repeat). My Atkin OM37 needed the saddle lowering a little as well.

    I think Atkin must take the Martin approach of setting their guitars up with slightly high action from stock on the basis that it's far easier to lower the action that raise it.
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  • greggreg66greggreg66 Frets: 495
    Yes they probably do. 

    It also needs a fret polish too I think. Both procedures are quite simple and I should be able to do them, but as it’s a valuable guitar I think I prefer to leave it to the pros, just in case lol! 
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  • tomjaxtomjax Frets: 72
    Very interesting thread. I've been looking at the J43 model too, it looks a lovely guitar and Atkins build quality is superb (I have a couple of his guitars), but I've been put off by the fact that they've got a 43mm nut width.  I'm slightly baffled by this as I don't believe a J45 has ever had a 43mm nut, and from what I've read the early ones (including the '43 vintage) had 45mm/1.75" nut width.

    I know it's possible to get one custom made, but I've been looking at the 2nd hand market, so I don't think I'll have much luck. Maybe if I get to play one the string spacing will feel ok.

    My other Atkins (an OM and an L-1) both have very shallow C-neck profiles, so the fat D-neck may be unique to the J43.
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  • Jimbro66Jimbro66 Frets: 2418
    When I first got my Atkin OM-28H Retrospective (9 years ago) I found the action just a little too high for my preference so took it back to Alister after a few weeks. He said then that he prefers to set the action a little higher intially and was happy to drop it a little for me but that it might effect its tone and available clean volume slightly. Fortunately it didn't to any noticeable extent and I was happy with the improved playability towards the dusty end. It's now set up with a tiny amount of neck relief. 12th fret action is 2.5mm at high E and a smidgen over 3mm at low E. For an acoustic that suits me fine and plays cleanly without any buzzes.

    As regards nut width, I fret notes with my thumb a lot so find 43mm (1-11/16") nut width just right for my hand whereas the 44.5mm (1-3/4") nut width of my previous Santa Cruz OM made thumb-over playing less comfortable.

    I've not had a chance to play an Atkin 43. At the time I bought my OM Alister had only made the one-off Buddy Holly tribute guitar in that style. I have to say I'd really love one of his L-1 Historic or Model '36' guitars though. Maybe one day.
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  • tomjaxtomjax Frets: 72
    Jimbro66 said:
    I've not had a chance to play an Atkin 43. At the time I bought my OM Alister had only made the one-off Buddy Holly tribute guitar in that style. I have to say I'd really love one of his L-1 Historic or Model '36' guitars though. 
    @Jimbro66 the Atkin L-1 is a fabulous little guitar, just great fun to play and really dynamic, it explodes with volume and range.  It has the real vintage tone going on without being dry and boxy. I love mine, and it's a fab guitar for noodling away on the sofa.  Having said all that, mine might be up for sale, so drop me a PM if you'd be interested if I do decide to sell it ( I've just bought an expensive Bourgeois OM, and sadly something has to go to help pay for it!)

    Sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread.  

    Back on track, I've just been listening to a few YouTube videos and comparisons of the Atkin J43 with the J45, it sounds great but doesn't have the J45 vibe going on to my ears; it's definitely a more modern balance. Has anybody been able to compare one with the Collings version, the CJ35?
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  • The CJ35 is a different guitar entirely to be honest. It's based on an old J35, not the J45. The 35 has three unscalloped tone bars compared with the J45 which has two tone bars which I believe are scalloped, so isn't a true like for like comparison.
    I may be a little biased as I own one myself, but I will say they are brilliant guitars, as i'm sure the others are too.

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  • BingMan said:
    The CJ35 is a different guitar entirely to be honest. It's based on an old J35, not the J45. The 35 has three unscalloped tone bars compared with the J45 which has two tone bars which I believe are scalloped, so isn't a true like for like comparison.
    I may be a little biased as I own one myself, but I will say they are brilliant guitars, as i'm sure the others are too.

    Another CJ35 owner here, player of many and previous owner of a great early 50's J45. Totally agree, the CJ35 is very different to the archetypal J45. A much more forward midrange than "some" earlier J45's. That's where comparison with wartime, post wartime 45's and prewar 35's gets murky. They were using prebraced tops with a bit of scalloping here and there with both two or three tone bars dependant upon on which was to hand. My 45 was very midrange heavy and sounded more like my well used Collings CJ35 than any modern era Gibson J45, which all dip in the midrange, with an element of compression. 
    I agree that the Collings CJ35 is indeed a great guitar. I have heard some folk say that it sound like no Gibson they have ever played, my answer is play a lot more old ones, 
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