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  • vizviz Frets: 8303
    edited September 25
    Adey said:
    It has most definately been promoted by government and others that the vaccine doesn't stop you getting Covid, it just stops you having symptoms. That is absolutely what has been spouted across most of the media, especially by the most fanatical rule followers.




    Well, that’s basically the outcome, by the mechanism I described. 
    Anything that isn’t pentatonic is pretentious wank -  LastMantra
    more on the strength of my ability to own a PA than to play a guitar” - ICBM
    Be yourself. Everyone else is taken. Better to sound like an individual than a clone” - Merlin
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  • Adey said:
    It has most definately been promoted by government and others that the vaccine doesn't stop you getting Covid, it just stops you having symptoms. That is absolutely what has been spouted across most of the media, especially by the most fanatical rule followers.


    it stops you getting symptoms because it helps you kill the virus before the symptoms develop (for most people)
    Same as most vaccines
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  • Simonh said:
    Simonh said:
    The vaccine does not prevent infection or transmission though… it is utter bullshit the lot of it.
    Sorry - iPad typo…
    prevent transmission? no - not 100% of the time
    It just makes it massively less often, which is why vaccines can end epidemics
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  • AdeyAdey Frets: 1176
    Adey said:
    It has most definately been promoted by government and others that the vaccine doesn't stop you getting Covid, it just stops you having symptoms. That is absolutely what has been spouted across most of the media, especially by the most fanatical rule followers.


    it stops you getting symptoms because it helps you kill the virus before the symptoms develop (for most people)
    Same as most vaccines
    I agree with you. But that isn't what the narrative we have been fed has generally been saying from the general media and government.

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  • Adey said:
    Adey said:
    It has most definately been promoted by government and others that the vaccine doesn't stop you getting Covid, it just stops you having symptoms. That is absolutely what has been spouted across most of the media, especially by the most fanatical rule followers.


    it stops you getting symptoms because it helps you kill the virus before the symptoms develop (for most people)
    Same as most vaccines
    I agree with you. But that isn't what the narrative we have been fed has generally been saying from the general media and government.

    well, yes I've given up on expecting the media to report science accurately. 
    Most of the scientists called in by the govt seem OK
    MPs not too clever generally

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  • AdeyAdey Frets: 1176
    edited September 26
    The counter intuitive narrative to the poulation seems to have been: -

    "The Vaccine doesn't stop you catching it or spreading it. It stops you having symptoms and that is why you can have it multiple times and why the Coronavirus is with us until the end of eternity".

    That really doesn't seem to make sense to me, given my understanding of how our immune systems works. I think people just love to have a "this is the most dangerous thing we have ever encountered and it was created by humans" moment
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  • Adey said:
    The counter intuitive narrative to the poulation seems to have been: -

    "The Vaccine doesn't stop you catching it or spreading it. It stops you having symptoms and that is why you can have it multiple times and why the Coronavirus is with us until the end of eternity".

    That really doesn't seem to make sense to me, given my understanding of how our immune systems works. I think people just love to have a "this is the most dangerous thing we have ever encountered and it was created by humans" moment
    I thought some people were trying to scare the vaccinated starting a few months back, to stop them returning to normal life
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 30940
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  • SnapSnap Frets: 5031
    A vaccine is pretty simple in principle - it gives your immune system the information it needs to wipe out a pathogen more quickly than it could without it.

    When you get an infection your body goes into a sort of contest to the death with it. Your body releases a load of weapons to wipe it out. That's why you get a fever - biological process and molecules operate best at 36-37 degrees so the body turns the heat up on the gamble that the infection will give out before the body does. Same goes for lots of immune response processes - the hope is the infection cops it before any damage is done to the body.

    So, with COVID it's the immune response (ie your weapons) that do people in. If you are already ahead of the game with the info provided by the vaccine you can react more quickly and more precisely so that your weapons are targeted. It's like using a laser targeted sniper rifle rather than a scatter bomb.

    In terms of being infectious to other people - a vaccine should make you infectious for less time as you are getting rid of the virus more quickly so it is less likely to be able to replicate as much, so there is less of it in your system to breathe out. 
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  • steven70steven70 Frets: 943
    edited October 8
    Snap said:
    A vaccine is pretty simple in principle - it gives your immune system the information it needs to wipe out a pathogen more quickly than it could without it.

    When you get an infection your body goes into a sort of contest to the death with it. Your body releases a load of weapons to wipe it out. That's why you get a fever - biological process and molecules operate best at 36-37 degrees so the body turns the heat up on the gamble that the infection will give out before the body does. Same goes for lots of immune response processes - the hope is the infection cops it before any damage is done to the body.

    So, with COVID it's the immune response (ie your weapons) that do people in. If you are already ahead of the game with the info provided by the vaccine you can react more quickly and more precisely so that your weapons are targeted. It's like using a laser targeted sniper rifle rather than a scatter bomb.

    In terms of being infectious to other people - a vaccine should make you infectious for less time as you are getting rid of the virus more quickly so it is less likely to be able to replicate as much, so there is less of it in your system to breathe out. 
    All good and well and understood. There are plenty of good reasons to take this vaccine should you chose. 


    My issue is with the 'social responsibility' angle that is being pushed hard on this single issue (not by you specifically - I am not saying that, to be clear).

    If someone is ill then they can stay home and then they won't be infectious to others, vaccinated or not.
    I have yet to see a study comparing levels of infectiousness between someone who is asymptomatic and someone who is infectious and yet has symptoms reduced via vaccination. 

    There are also plenty of good reasons not to take this vaccine and the idea that to accept is somehow one's duty to 'society' is crazy.




     

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  • Anyone seen the recent news about this new treatment for COVID? Sounds promising, possibly even a bit of a game changer, though I'm especially liking the fact they named it after Thor's Hammer!  =)

    https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/molnupiravir-thor-s-hammer-delivers ;
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  • chris78chris78 Frets: 5196
    That page has gone, but I’m sure we’ll see more and more treatments for covid making it less and less serious.

    In terms of now, we’re almost 3 months into reopening without most restrictions. Cases flat and not even close to the north of 100,000 that we were guaranteed. Hospitalisations falling and nowhere near the best case of 2,000 a day, let alone the worst case of 7,000 a day. Deaths also flat and falling recently. Amazingly, people are still talking about the potential for restrictions in winter, even when it’s been acknowledged that flu will be bad this winter BECAUSE of lockdowns. Anyone suggesting restrictions at this stage has lost their fucking mind.
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  • BellycasterBellycaster Frets: 4978
    chris78 said:
    That page has gone, but I’m sure we’ll see more and more treatments for covid making it less and less serious.

    In terms of now, we’re almost 3 months into reopening without most restrictions. Cases flat and not even close to the north of 100,000 that we were guaranteed. Hospitalisations falling and nowhere near the best case of 2,000 a day, let alone the worst case of 7,000 a day. Deaths also flat and falling recently. Amazingly, people are still talking about the potential for restrictions in winter, even when it’s been acknowledged that flu will be bad this winter BECAUSE of lockdowns. Anyone suggesting restrictions at this stage has lost their fucking mind.
    You think they'll suddenly start learning from History now?
    Is this a vision of normality I see before my eyes?
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 8102
    Even Professor Gloom is non-gloomy these days:

    Prof Neil Ferguson, one of the senior scientists advising ministers, said this week there was a lot of uncertainty about what would happen next, but a sustained decline from this point on was possible. "It's not guaranteed we will see a winter wave," he told MPs on the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Coronavirus.


    If Neil Ferguson, with his track record, isn't predicting a massive rise in cases, and is saying that cases might well fall from here on in, then it is basically over.

    Whitty was on the news 2 or 3 weeks ago saying that 50% of secondary school kids had probably had it already, so in reality, it was probably more like 70%.  Add in all the cases in the last couple of weeks, and we are very close to herd immunity in schools, if we are not already there.

    We aren't going to see another big rise unless there is a new immunity busting variant.  Cases might start to fall soon or they might bump along around the current levels for a few more weeks, but it's basically over and we need to get on with our lives.
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  • This week our primary school is telling parents that they must now wear a mask when collecting children OUTDOORS in the playground. The outdoor space is vast for a primary school. 
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  • This week our primary school is telling parents that they must now wear a mask when collecting children OUTDOORS in the playground. The outdoor space is vast for a primary school. 
    Say no. Simple.

    Bye!

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  • ColsCols Frets: 3990
    This week our primary school is telling parents that they must now wear a mask when collecting children OUTDOORS in the playground. The outdoor space is vast for a primary school. 
    You’d have loved my 8 year old son’s school harvest assembly today then.  120 kids and their parents crammed into the sports hall like sardines, masks not required or advised and very few being worn voluntarily.
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  • chris78chris78 Frets: 5196
    It’s called normal life.
    There truly is very little in having kids together, who are at very low risk from the virus, and parents, probably also at low risk and having had the chance to be doubled jabbed. 
    Having said that, nobody would be forcing parents to go who are uncomfortable.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 8102
    This week our primary school is telling parents that they must now wear a mask when collecting children OUTDOORS in the playground. The outdoor space is vast for a primary school. 

    You should write to the governors and suggest the head be sacked for being terminally stupid.  Somebody who makes decisions that bad should not be in charge of a school.
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  • AdeyAdey Frets: 1176
    I'm afraid that that is the modern risk-averse society we have become. It doesn't matter how small the risk. If we can be seen to be at fault then we should avoid that at all cost.
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