Combo XLR/ mains cable for active PA speakers?

smigeon

Hi all,

Came across a cable that combined an XLR sub-cable and an IEC mains sub-cable - intended to connect a mixer to an active PA speaker:

https://www.studiospares.com/Cables-Leads/Mains-Components/Pro-XLR--UK-IEC-Combination-Cable-10m_689840.htm?gclid=CjwKCAiAnfjyBRBxEiwA-EECLH6LiQvHNtl80xMiEDeUY3EwxTESiBHXjK5V_JWNGVYeetiOkI61bBoCI14QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds#rtabs1

My first thought is that the mains might make the XLR link a bit noisy - but maybe the normal balanced shielding is enough to make it negligible?

Anybody used these?? If the noise is indeed negligible, it seems like such cables could save a lot of wiring faff...

Danny1969

The balanced input rejects the common mode noise picked up from the 50hz hum, as long as you use a balanced out from the desk into a balanced input of the active PA speaker your be fine

Legionreturns

I don't know why you'd bother! The thing looks huge, and I can't think of many venues where it would be necessary because there aren't plugs within a few metres of the speakers. 

Add to that, if you lose one component you'll have to replace both. 

I have XLRs in various lengths, up to about 20m, IECs up to 10m and plenty of extension leads and IEC extenders. Covers all bases. 

p90fool

Legionreturns said:

I don't know why you'd bother! The thing looks huge, and I can't think of many venues where it would be necessary because there aren't plugs within a few metres of the speakers. 

Add to that, if you lose one component you'll have to replace both. 

I have XLRs in various lengths, up to about 20m, IECs up to 10m and plenty of extension leads and IEC extenders. Covers all bases. 

I'm inclined to agree, though they're probably handy for a floor wedge, if anyone is still using those.

Danny1969

Well one advantage is you don't need mains near the speakers, another is it ensures the desk and speakers are on the same main's ring. In a lot of venues which have been upgraded with extra sockets and building extensions there can be quite a potential difference between grounds 

Having said that I've never used combined mains and signal myself yet but can see the appeal 

Legionreturns

So far, on average, 3 IEC cables per year have failed their PAT test. 

If it was one of these, I'd be very annoyed! 

Danny1969

Legionreturns said:

So far, on average, 3 IEC cables per year have failed their PAT test. 

If it was one of these, I'd be very annoyed! 

Well if it did it's an 80p plug or a £1.29 rewire able IEC female to fix it

ESBlonde

I tend to find the need for power near the front of stage for LED lighting, fans, pedal boards etc. so having a 4 bar trailing socket by each FOH cabinet/tripod will probably still be needed.

midlifecrisis

another great solution for a problem that doesnt exist.

Roland

The main use for this type of cable is driving DMX lighting. You can run one combined cable rather than separate mains and XLR.

Legionreturns

Roland said:

The main use for this type of cable is driving DMX lighting. You can run one combined cable rather than separate mains and XLR.

But XLR and DMX cables aren't the same thing. 

Danny1969

Legionreturns said:

Roland said:

The main use for this type of cable is driving DMX lighting. You can run one combined cable rather than separate mains and XLR.

But XLR and DMX cables aren't the same thing. 

For short runs they are interchangable  but yeah your right, DMX uses a different shield design and is higher impedance .... I haven't had any problems though using double shielded mic cable for long DMX runs .... upto around 20 metres or so 

smigeon

FWIW that Studio Spares item I cited in the original post indeed seems to use DMX (you can see "DMX" written on the cable in the photo if you look carefully) - but the description talks about connecting active speakers to mixers. So they seem to assume that XLR is near 'nuff the same as DMX at least for cables of this length (10m).

I've gone ahead and ordered a couple of these cables for my newly purchased active speakers. Probably speaks to my overly tidy mind - and my dislike of rats nests of cables that I always seem to trip over :-).

Rocker

It looks a neat and inexpensive solution to the problem of keeping cables tidy and out of harms way on stage.

Legionreturns

I think it probably says more about me that I tend to spend more than that on regular XLR cables... 

I'm not a big fan of replacing faulty cables too often. I have a business to run and my cables get a lot of abuse! 

ICBM

Rocker said:

It looks a neat and inexpensive solution to the problem of keeping cables tidy and out of harms way on stage.

To me it looks like an unnecessary way of making something more use-specific than it has to be and thus increasing the number of spares you need to carry, for no good reason. I'd rather carry a couple of 10m XLRs and a couple of 10m IECs, so you only need one spare of each, and which can then be used for other gear.

I'm also not massively keen on the idea of putting mains and signal in the same outer sheath, where in the very unlikely but not totally impossible event of the cable being badly crushed internally, you could end up with mains going up a signal wire - that's going to get expensive quickly. You might even get theatrical Back To The Future-type fireworks if you're lucky...

Legionreturns

smigeon said:

Probably speaks to my overly tidy mind - and my dislike of rats nests of cables that I always seem to trip over :-).

You'll probably find that chunky cable a right pain in the arse when it comes to taping or hiding in a cable tidy

mike257

See lots of this kind of thing, manufactured or assembled per production as required, in touring world. If you've got the same set of cables, going between the same two points every time, then if you loom them up you've only got to pull it in/out the once. When you see a touring show, there's often a loom to each riser with a multicore to a small stage box, and 16a power tied to it. Likewise with touring pedalboard setups, power and multiple signal and/or control lines will be ran through braided sheath together, with heatshrink sealing the ends tight. When you've got a 20 minute changeover on a festival, you just drag one fat cable from behind the amps out to the front of the stage and you're in. 

I've always felt that this is worth doing on shows of any scale. The quicker and easier you can make any load in/out, the better. All those little two minute jobs you save can add up to mean you're on/off the stage in half the time you would have been. 

Danny1969

mike257 said:

See lots of this kind of thing, manufactured or assembled per production as required, in touring world. If you've got the same set of cables, going between the same two points every time, then if you loom them up you've only got to pull it in/out the once. When you see a touring show, there's often a loom to each riser with a multicore to a small stage box, and 16a power tied to it. Likewise with touring pedalboard setups, power and multiple signal and/or control lines will be ran through braided sheath together, with heatshrink sealing the ends tight. When you've got a 20 minute changeover on a festival, you just drag one fat cable from behind the amps out to the front of the stage and you're in. 

I've always felt that this is worth doing on shows of any scale. The quicker and easier you can make any load in/out, the better. All those little two minute jobs you save can add up to mean you're on/off the stage in half the time you would have been. 

My pedal board to rack amp uses 1 send, 2  returns one rack tuner mute switch and I use one dual balanced cable with 5 pin XRL's each end to connect it .... wired like pin 1 ground, pin 2 send, pin 3 return Left, pin 4 return right and pin 5 is tuner mute to ground. As the XRL ends are male and female I can easily extend my run buy adding on an identical lead like you would a normal mic lead. 

I also run the whole bands ears by using 2 balanced XRL's into one male XLR converters wired like this, lets say I'm using aux 4 and 5 for my ears

Aux 4 out  Pin 1 ground, Pin 2 to male pin 2 pin 3 to ground
Aux 5 out  Pin 1 ground, Pin 2 to male pin 3 PIN 3 to ground

So it's essentially converting both aux sends to unbalanced single ended and using pin 1 for ground, pin 2 for left IEM and pin 3 for right IEM down a single mic lead. In a 5 piece band that saves on a minimum of 5 mic cables, more on a very large stage 

As you say it's a small win but a constant win every single gig 

paulmapp8306

2 main problems I see.

1.  Shoulndt run mains next to signal cables (even if the audio is balanced)

2.  I dont know many who have a mains outlet right next to a desk audio output.

smigeon

paulmapp8306 said:

2 main problems I see.

1.  Shouldn't run mains next to signal cables (even if the audio is balanced)

2.  I don't know many who have a mains outlet right next to a desk audio output.

In practice, not really problems - for me at least. With my small-scale PA kit (RCF actives and an A&H ZED mixer) there is zero hum, even when turned right up. And, as the mixer sits on the stage, I'm always expecting mains available nearby.

ICBM said:

To me it looks like an unnecessary way of making something more use-specific than it has to be and thus increasing the number of spares you need to carry, for no good reason. I'd rather carry a couple of 10m XLRs and a couple of 10m IECs, so you only need one spare of each, and which can then be used for other gear.

That's true. Not an issue for me personally as I happen always to have spare XLR and kettle leads (albeit not 10m ones) in the car...

ICBM said:

I'm also not massively keen on the idea of putting mains and signal in the same outer sheath, where in the very unlikely but not totally impossible event of the cable being badly crushed internally, you could end up with mains going up a signal wire - that's going to get expensive quickly. You might even get theatrical Back To The Future-type fireworks if you're lucky...

Good point. Although unlikely to be a problem in practice, as you say.

I'm loving the win of it being a few seconds less to set up and tear down :-). I'm glad that others above, not only me, find this a pleasing thing. And the neater cable runs. The main downside for me, as others also pointed out above, is that the cables are quite chunky and won't both fit in my mixer bag. Perfection would be similar cables but a bit thinner!