Jazz Bass Frequency Chart?

What's Hot
thegummythegummy Frets: 3994
You know that when both pickups on a J are on full there are certain frequencies that get cancelled out and turning either pickup down even just a hair opens the sound up massively?

Has anyone seen such a thing as a frequency chart that show which frequencies get cancelled?

I guess it might be more complicated than a static EQ curve but there's a definite specific sound. I think I've tried, unsuccessfully, to find some info on this in the past but maybe someone here will have seen something.
0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom

Comments

  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 15563
    Might be something on the EMG site - they have an "Active Balance Control" that is supposed to combat it. Sometimes they have freq graphs showing the benefits of things.
    Humans will swim in the sea even though there are many corpses in it.  They will not swim in a pool with a corpse in it. 
    Therefore all humans have a water / corpse ratio that is acceptable to them.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 57017
    It's *far* more complicated than a static EQ curve - in fact it's not specific frequencies at all, it's different harmonics on the strings, which varies depending on which fret you're playing at.

    Basically, any harmonic where the string is moving upwards over one pickup and downwards over the other will be cancelled, and one where it's moving in the same direction reinforced.

    You can't reproduce it with EQ, but you could probably get close with a fixed phaser, or an 'enhancer' type effect which works by mixing out-of-phase harmonics with the main signal.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 1reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 15563
    ICBM said:
    It's *far* more complicated than a static EQ curve - in fact it's not specific frequencies at all, it's different harmonics on the strings, which varies depending on which fret you're playing at.

    Basically, any harmonic where the string is moving upwards over one pickup and downwards over the other will be cancelled, and one where it's moving in the same direction reinforced.

    You can't reproduce it with EQ, but you could probably get close with a fixed phaser, or an 'enhancer' type effect which works by mixing out-of-phase harmonics with the main signal.
    So every note is affected differently then?

    Cool! Should have been obvious really!
    Humans will swim in the sea even though there are many corpses in it.  They will not swim in a pool with a corpse in it. 
    Therefore all humans have a water / corpse ratio that is acceptable to them.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 57017
    fretmeister said:

    So every note is affected differently then?
    Yes - and even the same note played on different strings, since the string length relative to the pickup position and separation is different.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • thegummythegummy Frets: 3994
    ICBM said:
    It's *far* more complicated than a static EQ curve - in fact it's not specific frequencies at all, it's different harmonics on the strings, which varies depending on which fret you're playing at.

    Basically, any harmonic where the string is moving upwards over one pickup and downwards over the other will be cancelled, and one where it's moving in the same direction reinforced.

    You can't reproduce it with EQ, but you could probably get close with a fixed phaser, or an 'enhancer' type effect which works by mixing out-of-phase harmonics with the main signal.
    That really makes so much sense, thanks for that.

    I feel that there is definitely a cut off in the high end as soon as both are up full, regardless what note I play - is that in my head or maybe just on my particular bass? Or is the high end always dulled and it's the mid range that gets the varied cancellations?
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • JezWyndJezWynd Frets: 4973
    thegummy said:
    ICBM said:
    It's *far* more complicated than a static EQ curve - in fact it's not specific frequencies at all, it's different harmonics on the strings, which varies depending on which fret you're playing at.

    Basically, any harmonic where the string is moving upwards over one pickup and downwards over the other will be cancelled, and one where it's moving in the same direction reinforced.

    You can't reproduce it with EQ, but you could probably get close with a fixed phaser, or an 'enhancer' type effect which works by mixing out-of-phase harmonics with the main signal.
    That really makes so much sense, thanks for that.

    I feel that there is definitely a cut off in the high end as soon as both are up full, regardless what note I play - is that in my head or maybe just on my particular bass? Or is the high end always dulled and it's the mid range that gets the varied cancellations?
    I've noticed that as well. Turning either volume down a very small amount seems to fatten the sound and give back upper mids/high end. This on a 62 with vintage style passive pick ups.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 57017
    The high-end might be affected slightly more because as the harmonics get higher, the notches of the comb-filtering it produces get closer together, but where that runs out will depend on the particular strings - thicker and less flexible strings (including flatwounds) simply don't produce many high harmonics at all.

    I always hear it more as a loss of punch in the lower mids - the fundamentals aren't affected, but many of the harmonics that give the P-Bass it's midrange growl are, so the result is the classic smooth slightly scooped Jazz sound.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • JezWyndJezWynd Frets: 4973
    Am I right in thinking that with both volumes maxed, there is a hum cancelling effect?
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 57017
    JezWynd said:
    Am I right in thinking that with both volumes maxed, there is a hum cancelling effect?
    Yes, because the pickups are RWRP.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 15563
    JezWynd said:
    Am I right in thinking that with both volumes maxed, there is a hum cancelling effect?
    What hum?

    I've got EMGs in mine! :D 
    Humans will swim in the sea even though there are many corpses in it.  They will not swim in a pool with a corpse in it. 
    Therefore all humans have a water / corpse ratio that is acceptable to them.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • JezWyndJezWynd Frets: 4973
    JezWynd said:
    Am I right in thinking that with both volumes maxed, there is a hum cancelling effect?
    What hum?

    I've got EMGs in mine! :D 
    The loud annoying hum! I've got nylon strings and Fender Original pu's, so no earthing even with hand on strings!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 57017
    edited April 20
    JezWynd said:

    The loud annoying hum! I've got nylon strings and Fender Original pu's, so no earthing even with hand on strings!
    That's buzz, not hum. It's a real problem with nylon tapewounds - the only real solutions are extremely thorough shielding, or EMGs.

    Surprisingly, old Höfners - the other bass most often fitted with nylon tapewounds - are actually pretty well-shielded and don't really have this problem.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • jaymenonjaymenon Frets: 523
    This is interesting 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 8869
    ICBM said:
    fretmeister said:

    So every note is affected differently then?
    Yes - and even the same note played on different strings, since the string length relative to the pickup position and separation is different.
    This is why the changed position of the long/bridge pickup during the CBS era altered the sound slightly. (I happen to prefer that sound.)
    Be seeing you.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.