Camera advice please

TTony

I've just read DiscoStu's thread, but his question was different.  So, at the risk of turning theFB into a WhatCamera forum, here's my Q ...

I have 2 "current" cameras (forgetting about the phone).

A Nikon D5000 with an assortment of lenses out to 300mm.  I like this camera.  

I like it so much that I don't take it, or its lenses, on holiday to have sand blown into it, instead I take my old Canon Ixus.

The Canon is obviously nowhere near as good as the D5000, but it's most annoying in that it's a lot slower to auto-focus, and shot composition is nigh impossible to see on the little display in sunlight (no viewfinder).  It's got to the point where the phone camera actually seems to be better, easier and quicker to use than the Ixus.  Just back from a week away, and I'm not that happy with the Ixus' output (yup, bad workmen, but you try taking photos of running dogs on a beach in bright sunshine when the auto-focus is slow and you can't see what's in the actual shot when you press the shutter button!).

I'm thinking of buying a D3000 body & basic lens kit for £150.  That means that my existing D5000 accessories (and extra lenses) are all interchangeable, I get a much better "beach" camera that I'm not so worried about getting sand blown into, with a familiar user interface, and keep my nice D5000 in nice, un-sanded, condition.

Is that sensible, or should I look at something else?

£150 is really the max I'd want to spend on a camera that's going to have a hardish life (ie might not live that long!).

boogieman

I take my decent gear most places (I carted it round India and Nepal last year) but I'm always aware of when it's vulnerable so I'm just sensible with it. I wouldn't change lenses in the middle of a beach for instance. But at the end of the day, it's a tool to be used and I want the best pictures I can get so I'm prepared to take the risk.

On rare occasions when I don't want to lug a bag full of high end gear with me, I use a Canon Powershot SX240. Never had an issue with slow autofocus, it has a massive zoom range and it turns out decent images even in dim light conditions. I agree, the LCD "viewfinder" is always a compromise though and it's annoying when you cant see the screen properly in bright light.

On balance I'd say either use what you have already and take the risk or get the cheaper body.

 

Axe_meister

Your average SLR is actually far more sturdy than your average point and shoot. One of the reasons why they cost a fair bit more.

jellyroll

Take it onto the beach. Just don't change lenses. No point keeping an SLR body pristine....it'll be obsolete in a few years anyway. FWIW I take my Leicas onto the beach.

Van_Hayden

I regard a DSLR body as film - I shot 35000 images on my D90, if that had been film it would have cost about £3500 to get standard prints from decent film. Camera cost me £600!

I've bought a D7100 which is unbelievable and kept the D90 for abusive use.

Is the D5000 weather sealed? And do your lenses have ass-gaskets as Ken Rockwell likes to call them?

TTony

Nope, all my stuff is stock - no sealants or anything.

 

It's not bashng the body that bothers me so much (ie not keeping it pristine), it's more that it'll get sand in it, or bashed in a way that makes it unusable before it's finished its useful life with me (ignoring the manufacturer obsolescence cycle!)

jellyroll

Sounds like GAS dressed up to me! I still suggest you're wasting £150. Pretty sure you could get a sensor cleaning for less than that if you ever needed it.

stickyfiddle

jellyroll;266197" said:

Sounds like GAS dressed up to me! I still suggest you're wasting £150. Pretty sure you could get a sensor cleaning for less than that if you ever needed it.

I'm going to go the other way and say it's the perfect excuse for GAS. Have you considered Micro Four Thirds?

boogieman

I just had a look over at MPB photographic and you can get a decent used D5000 body for under £150. Just buy a second one.

Fazer

jellyroll said:

Take it onto the beach. Just don't change lenses. No point keeping an SLR body pristine....it'll be obsolete in a few years anyway. FWIW I take my Leicas onto the beach.

^ what he said, just take it to the beach and dont roll around with it in the sand

TTony

jellyroll said:

Sounds like GAS dressed up to me!

Not really - it's like looking for a cheap Squier because I didn't want to take my proper Strat to a dodgy pub gig ... 

stickyfiddle said:

Have you considered Micro Four Thirds?

No, I haven't.  Hadn't.

Fazer said:

and dont roll around with it in the sand

That's likely what'll happen with it!

TTony

As an example, I'm really disappointed with the way this turned out.  But then the ixus is limited; point, focus, shoot and hope that the shot is right because you can't actually see it in the display.  With a proper camera, I'd expect a rather better result.

boogieman

That's a pretty good pic actually, nice composition, although you can see definitely see some dropping off of image quality by the time you get to the dogs and the edge of the beach. Your DSLR would have done a better job with its better sensor and better lens.

ChrisMusic

Hey Tony, I really don't get this.  You have bought a camera to enjoy the photographic experience, have a selection of lenses to take care of different situations and ways of interpreting the subject matter.  And yet you are frustrated with the experience of leaving your camera behind and using something that you know to be a poor substitute.

What's all this about - "makes it unusable before it's finished its useful life with me".  You are wasting its's useful life by not taking it out and using it creatively, and then getting frustrated with that outcome.

Cameras are designed to be used, take reasonable care with it, but it is cheap enough to replace or upgrade if you should trash it completely.  And trust me that takes some doing, I have even had my tripod collapse as a wave came in and disturbed the integrity of the sand it was footed in.  Camera over in the surf.  Every one said I should do an insurance job on it, dried it out and got the salt out, bloody thing still worked !  It has been in dust storms in the Sahara, out in torrential weather whilst avoiding lightning strikes, used around the world.  Of course I protected as best I could, but I used it to make images.  Otherwise why have it at all ?

As @Boogieman suggested, the Canon Powershot SX240 is a good minimal backup / second camera, and while more limited the Canon Powershot G series are good, if more limited lens range, but have a proper viewfinder and full creative control.  A second hand similar/same Nikon body would cover you if anything went wrong, which can happen in the most innocuous situations, and would work exactly the same, and use all your lenses, same batteries etc.  Or just replace it if it "breaks" ?

TTony

ChrisMusic said:

Hey Tony, I really don't get this.  You have bought a camera to enjoy the photographic experience, have a selection of lenses to take care of different situations and ways of interpreting the subject matter.  And yet you are frustrated with the experience of leaving your camera behind and using something that you know to be a poor substitute.

I understand the point.

It's the same situation as gigging musicians who want a cheaper backup guitar for some of their gigs, where they know the risk of theft/damage is higher.

I know that the D5000 isn't hugely expensive now (wasn't "huge" even when new), but of course if I had to replace it, I'd still spend more than I needed to do, because there'd always be an option that was just a little bit more expensive, but so much better!  So, I'd prefer not to put myself in that position, and keep that for the times (like this very afternoon) when I can use it quite happily as I know there's minimal risk to it.

Having it on a sandy beach, with 3 dogs and a backpack full of other stuff, means that the risk is a lot higher, so I'm looking for a cheaper, not-so-bothered-if-it-gets-damaged option.  That *was* the role of the Ixus until I got too fed up with the quality/functionality compromise.

Fazer

it would be too painful for me to take a photo when i knew that i had a better quality camera at home

get a zipup padded bag to protect the camera when its in the backpack, and save up the 'spare camera' money and put it towards the eventual replacement/upgrade.
as long as you dont actually put the camera on the sand it will probably be ok and its worth the risk.

RaymondLin

Put a UV filter on the lens, duct tape all the gaps like battery compartment and memory and go nuts? That's for insurance is for, I take my 5DIII on the beach for a shoot one time, it's fine, they are tougher than you think.

ChrisMusic

Hey Tony, I have to apologise, I just read my quote at the top of your last post, and I sound like an elderly school teacher, sorry about that.  I really do think I should have chucked a couple of smilies in to soften it to the more "tongue in cheek" tone I had intended   

I used to think the same way, and I have a very pocketable Ricoh GX100,  a Canon G12 which cost about £150 second hand from the local London Camera Exchange, being a bit chunky it needs a larger pocket.  Unfortunately all my pro gear was stolen a while back and I can't afford to replace it (long story), so I know what loss feels like only too well.  Even more unfortunate as I use my camera to earn a living.

Can I update your guitar comparison ?  The functional guitar equivalent of the camera compromise would be to gig with that dodgy first acoustic I had with action as high as the Forth rail bridge, and razor wire for strings.  I'd prefer to risk the Strat (I think)  

ChrisMusic

Back on track, a few thoughts and some basic advice for anyone interested, on using any camera, especially in challenging conditions, which are usually the most interesting photographically.

1.  Keep your camera safely tucked away when not in use, ideally a padded camera bag, but even a zip-loc type (or even a carrier bag) will help in a back pack to keep dust etc out, ideally wrap the zip-loc bag in a towel etc (always handy) for shock protection too.

2. Do *not* leave your camera bag open whilst shooting, dust, sand, rain and small animals are always waiting with mal-intent.  And do *not* just close the top over to keep crap out, always secure the top properly.  I guarantee you will pick the bag up, probably at 5:30 am on the beach after a spectacular sunrise, forgetting that the top is just insecure, and you will discharge the whole expensive contents all over the very sand you were trying to protect them from.

3. Keep water and especially sea water out of the camera, and the thieves at bay.

- Gaffa tape is a good idea as mentioned by @RaymondLin above, it also helps to keep your camera looking less of a thief target, especially if it is a name brand which gets stolen to order in many 3rd world countries, so a bit of gaffe over the name too, and "who would steal that old thing".  Loads of old stickers over cases helps in the same way too.

- Filters, a UV or skylight filter is your friend.  Knock or drop your lens and a comparatively inexpensive broken filter is so much cheaper to replace than a scratched or even broken front element.  You can wipe, or even scrub the filter clean, repeatedly in a way which could damage the front lens element.  Such a good idea in the rain or by a waterfall, or at the sea side, just keep wiping clean and be worry free.

- Salt makes a real mess of things, damages circuitry and is very greasy (honestly) and difficult to get off your lens.  Salt is in the air all the time by the seaside, when it is stormy, i.e. interesting, there can be a huge amount in airborne moisture It acts like a soft focus filter at first and then starts to crystallise.  Use a filter and it is so much easier to keep clean.  Wipe the body down regularly and keep your camera bag shut and sealed.

- Sand, an abrasive problem.  It is usual moving fastest at the boundary layer, i.e. the first few inches above the surface, so do bear that in mind in breezy conditions anywhere dusty or at the beach.  A potential issue in putting your bag down at the beach.  Keep an eye on wind direction as well as sun direction.  Keep your camera clean and hoover your bag out if any gets inside.

4. Security, a few basics.  Keep your camera with you and in sight at all times.  Be careful where you go especially in some notorious urban areas.

Keep your camera in a secure bag when not in use.  See the gaffe tape disguise trick above to reduce it's theft value.  Always put a chair or table leg through the bags strap when at a cafe or public place, it's hard to snatch a bag that basically has you sitting on it.  When in use, set your camera and tripod up securely and in a place that it is not a trip hazard, it saves on repair bills to yourself and others.

There is loads more, most of which is common sense, some isn't quite so obvious.  Take care.

You can have confidence in your preparations.

So you can relax and have fun with your photography.  

TTony

boogieman said:

I just had a look over at MPB photographic and you can get a decent used D5000 body for under £150. Just buy a second one.

Just re-reading this thread, and that's a nice idea.  Wisdom @boogieman

ChrisMusic

That sounds like a good call.

Everything about it will work the same way and be interchangeable, all your current lenses fit, so a very pragmatic solution.

The main reason IMO for going point and shoot is to reduce the bulk and weight for those "just in case" days, then something great happens and you wish you had the DSLR anyway.

edit: and with two bodies, when out for "serious" photography, whatever that means, you can pack your camera bag with your two favourite lenses already attached, one to each body.  Saves on faffing around changing lenses, including saving the risk of getting dust or moisture on the sensor, or dropping something with cold fingers first thing in the morning.  And your backup is all ways with you that way too.