Truss rod maxed out.

Devil#20

I bought this cheap Squier affinity telecaster of a bloke that I saw advertised locally on facebook marketplace. It only cost me 70 quid and have to admit is was pretty much mint. I did notice that the nut wasn't that well cut which meant it needed changing to bring the high E string further inboard as it was too close to the fret ends. The intention was to use it as a test bed for pickups, pots, different wiring configs before I go and butcher one of my US teles. I knew the action was a bit high but I can't straighten the neck on the truss rod because it runs to the end of it's adjustment. What can I do about it. Washer?

Epsilon

Are you trying to use the truss rod to lower the action? Have you lowered the bridge saddles first? Bridge saddles are your main tool for adjusting action. The truss rod isn't really designed for that - it affects neck angle which will impact on string height at different points on the neck, however its primary purpose is adjusting the neck angle.

WezV

Epsilon said:

Are you trying to use the truss rod to lower the action? Have you lowered the bridge saddles first? Bridge saddles are your main tool for adjusting action. The truss rod isn't really designed for that - it affects neck angle which will impact on string height at different points on the neck, however its primary purpose is adjusting the neck angle.

its all connected... but its primary purpose is for straightening the curve introduced by string tension

 You use shims to control neck angle on a bolt on neck

ICBM

Epsilon said:

Are you trying to use the truss rod to lower the action? Have you lowered the bridge saddles first? Bridge saddles are your main tool for adjusting action. The truss rod isn't really designed for that - it affects neck angle which will impact on string height at different points on the neck, however its primary purpose is adjusting the neck angle.

Sorry, this is wrong.

The truss rod adjusts the *relief*, or curvature of the neck, not its angle.

Lowering the bridge saddles when the action is too high, when the real cause is too much relief, will make the guitar buzz and choke out at the top of the neck while still being hard to play in the middle. This is how almost all guitars which arrive at the shop for a set-up are like, precisely because the owner has lowered the saddles to try to make the guitar easier to play, when the real problem is the relief.

The correct solution is to straighten the neck and often to *raise* the bridge/saddles.

Devil#20 said:

What can I do about it. Washer?

Yes, if the adjuster has run out of thread rather than just being too tight to adjust further.

prowla

Step 1 in setting up a guitar = adjust the truss rod to straighten the neck.

(Well, for pedanticity, assuming all the bits are in place and it's got strings on which are tuned about right.)

If the rod has got to the end of the thread, you can indeed put a washer on there.

You can adjust action with the bridge and the neck angle.

Funkfingers

ICBM said:

This is how almost all guitars which arrive at the shop for a set-up are like

Plus, the saddles will have been adjusted to seemingly random and inappropriate angles. The usual story is that the owner’s mate had a go at it.

Devil#20

I was trying to straighten the neck with the guitar strung prior to adjusting the bridge saddles if needed. However, I ran out of adjustment and their was still a fair gap in the middle of the neck when I put a notched straight edge across it. At a guess I'd say about 20-25 thousandths. 

WezV

Devil#20 said:

I was trying to straighten the neck with the guitar strung prior to adjusting the bridge saddles if needed. However, I ran out of adjustment and their was still a fair gap in the middle of the neck when I put a notched straight edge across it. At a guess I'd say about 20-25 thousandths. 

If you fret 1st and 16th fret, is the gap similar?    ifs fine knowing if the board is flat, but it doesn't tell you if the tops of the fret are.   if its ever been leveled without the neck being perfectly straight first, the gaps could be different

the gap isn't out the realms of playable as it is, certainly not for a heavier strummer.  the guitar should be able to pull off a playable action, but definitely not a low one.   Worse case is a £70 slide guitar

Devil#20

WezV said:

Devil#20 said:

I was trying to straighten the neck with the guitar strung prior to adjusting the bridge saddles if needed. However, I ran out of adjustment and their was still a fair gap in the middle of the neck when I put a notched straight edge across it. At a guess I'd say about 20-25 thousandths. 

If you fret 1st and 16th fret, is the gap similar?    ifs fine knowing if the board is flat, but it doesn't tell you if the tops of the fret are.   if its ever been leveled without the neck being perfectly straight first, the gaps could be different

the gap isn't out the realms of playable as it is, certainly not for a heavier strummer.  the guitar should be able to pull off a playable action, but definitely not a low one.   Worse case is a £70 slide guitar

Wez. The frets may well not be level but I suspect this guitar hasn't been touched since it left the factory. The notched straight edge and the plain straight edge both show a similar gap from fretboard and top of fret respectively so the frets are probably flat. I just wanted to see what the action was like with a straight neck. If I was doing the job from scratch then the strings would be off, the neck straightened and a straight edge or fret rocker used to check the frets were all level. If not then a light levelling and crowning. String it back up, tighten the truss rod to take out the bend and then check the action and adjust the saddles accordingly using radius guages. Then adjust the nut if it needed it. That, to my way of thinking, would be the order of setup from scratch but I'm not a luthier. However, I'm not happy with a truss rod that doesn't have an available range of adjustment even when the guitar is properly set up. It's always likely to move over time or a different gauge of string will require a tweak. I'm not that keen to adjust neck angle or indeed start hacking away at the nut slots. Besides I don't have any nut files and a good set will knock you back £100+

WezV

I have two approaches, the first is to do the job properly and thoroughly, largely as you have described.  For that,  you need to get the truss rod working.


The second approach came from helping a mate keeping his teaching business running.   Hundreds of cheap guitars that often needed to be made playable as cheaply and quickly as possible.  If I was spending more than 15 minutes on any guitar, it was too long.  In this situation I would make do.  In most cases, i was able to achieve something nicely playable in that time, but a perfect set up it was not.

If this was a thread about a high priced guitar my advice would be different, but ultimately you are free to decide the level of investment you make in it.   I have certainly invested in many a cheap guitar myself.


Try the washer

Devil#20

WezV said:

I have two approaches, the first is to do the job properly and thoroughly, largely as you have described.  For that,  you need to get the truss rod working.


The second approach came from helping a mate keeping his teaching business running.   Hundreds of cheap guitars that often needed to be made playable as cheaply and quickly as possible.  If I was spending more than 15 minutes on any guitar, it was too long.  In this situation I would make do.  In most cases, i was able to achieve something nicely playable in that time, but a perfect set up it was not.

If this was a thread about a high priced guitar my advice would be different, but ultimately you are free to decide the level of investment you make in it.   I have certainly invested in many a cheap guitar myself.


Try the washer

I wouldn't be wasting time buying tools to set up a cheap 70 quid guitar. I've loads of expensive guitars too.