Fretless classical guitar

m0rt

Hi.
So this is an itch I need to scratch.

Has anyone got one currently, or indeed played one? Enquiring minds and all that....

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There are some advantages to fretless Guitars . Less string damage for one . If you have  good ear , less intonation and  tuning problems. Most classical fretless instruments have a  curved fingerboard and less strings . So the flat fingerboard with six strings is hard to play . You can buy  fretless guitars , but the demand is low , so they tend to be expensive 
 There are some good players . Have a look for Buzz Gravelle . He plays mostly  his  own work with lots  of  slides that would be difficult to play with frets .

m0rt

Interestingly I read the opposite...:/ that a curved fingerboard is harder than a flat one to get a nice low flat action across the board. Either way - without having played either I can't comment with any weight.

I came across Buzz Grfavelle and enjoy his performances. In fact it was that which pushed me further to want to try one.

GTC

Very recently I bought a handmade fretted electro-acoustic thin-bodied classical from a Turkish luthier (see my NGD - https://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/187944/ngd-electro-classical-guitar-by-sandi-turkish-luthier#latest )

They also do a fretless version - and there's a YouTube video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viQqXuKz5D0

m0rt

Funnily enough, I came across your thread and looked at those right at the beginning of my search (originally I had an interest in archtop nylon...) . I debated that and the price is superb considering fishman pickup/preamp. However, If I can I would like to get more of a traditional body if possible, first. 

GTC

There's a very cheap fretless classical on Reverb (from Spain) if you were looking to try the concept out. No electronics but I guess these could be retrofitted.

The Turkish guitar is the closest I've found to a normal classical in a thin body instrument.

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m0rt said:

Interestingly I read the opposite...:/ that a curved fingerboard is harder than a flat one to get a nice low flat action across the board. Either way - without having played either I can't comment with any weight.

I came across Buzz Grfavelle and enjoy his performances. In fact it was that which pushed me further to want to try one.

The radius on most classical insruments like a violin is  more to do with the fact you play the strings with a bow  . But it is also considered to be easier to play . Most classical guitars have a flat fingerboard because of tradition . But it is common on modern guitars , like a fender .

m0rt

I was referring to the really low action required on a fretless guitar being easier to achieve on a flat fretboard. I am familiar with the differences between fretboard radius and the reasons are to do with the style of playing, not so much tradition. However I read your comment now and see you were referring to bowed not plucked.

So anyway - I sent an email to Sandi about the possibility of a traditional guitar since I have seen they do make them, and they sent me an email back to the link to the fretless. I had the original page open, and in the process of me asking the question they raised the price before sending me the link and indeed the price is now higher on the website.

Whereas i am not disputing the value for money, it left a sour taste in my mouth.


Yeah  - I saw that cheap on on Reverb too. I was also debating getting a quote to defret a classical at my local shop. I also enquired at TFOA who stated that it would be less work (for them) to replace the fretboard but then came back with they didn't have time to do it at the moment so think they changed their minds during the conversation.


UPDATE - Spoke to Sandi and it turns out that they just adjusted the price to match their Ebay price. Issue with exchange rate, apparently, and the price is delivered to the door.

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Yeah  - I saw that cheap on on Reverb too. I was also debating getting a quote to defret a classical at my local shop. I also enquired at TFOA who stated that it would be less work (for them) to replace the fretboard but then came back with they didn't have time to do it at the moment so think they changed their minds during the conversation.

It is not that difficult to plane off an old fingerboard and glue on a new one ,it's all time doing it , that will cost money . 

althy

had a godin multiac SA fretless, it was brilliant. Awesome with a bit of reverb and great to practice acoustically.

ToneControl

How about you buy a cheap £50 one and rip the frets out. Just to try it out?

I had a fretless strat once
Removed frets then had filled with wood.
I never managed to do anything musical with it

Does give you fret markers which could be helpful

I think I heard some nice acoustic fretless playing by Philip Catherine  (with Larry Coryell) on Twin House or Splendid 

m0rt

Watch this space. This is going to happen, however I achieve it.  

And I will post a video of me playing it, however badly....

Adji

Quite a recent passion of mine!

Long story short, I modded an old acoustic a couple of years ago t o try it out and it worked okay. Got a custom Geoffrey Needham fretless classical a couple months ago and I absolutely love it.

I mainly started using it to mess about with maqam based music (as Dhafer Yousseff is one of my favourite musicians) but it is useful for a whole load of stuff. Traditional classical music is obviously very tricky to play in standard tunings but not impossible to play variations.

De-fretting is actually pretty simple if you want to grab a cheapy and give it a shot. Where are you based? You are welcome to try out mine if anywhere near.

Can't work out how to embed the video:

https://www.facebook.com/518120750/videos/10158627975780751/?extid=DIFXLIVJeLqMKqUY

m0rt

That sounds awesome! 

I'm based near Chester just over the border in North Wales. That is a very kind offer of yours.

I have the same thought that it wouldn't be used to play pieces that are existing, but for my own or playing along with others.

One other love, despite being now being sold for money to start a business, is modular synthesis. I was never one for quantised notes which leads to really interesting harmonies and ideas to explore. I think I would find a similar love here.

GTC

Adji said:

Quite a recent passion of mine!

Long story short, I modded an old acoustic a couple of years ago t o try it out and it worked okay. Got a custom Geoffrey Needham fretless classical a couple months ago and I absolutely love it.

I mainly started using it to mess about with maqam based music (as Dhafer Yousseff is one of my favourite musicians) but it is useful for a whole load of stuff. Traditional classical music is obviously very tricky to play in standard tunings but not impossible to play variations.

De-fretting is actually pretty simple if you want to grab a cheapy and give it a shot. Where are you based? You are welcome to try out mine if anywhere near.

Can't work out how to embed the video:

https://www.facebook.com/518120750/videos/10158627975780751/?extid=DIFXLIVJeLqMKqUY

That's really nice. You are starting to make me want to try one too.

Adji

m0rt said:

That sounds awesome! 

I'm based near Chester just over the border in North Wales. That is a very kind offer of yours.

I have the same thought that it wouldn't be used to play pieces that are existing, but for my own or playing along with others.

One other love, despite being now being sold for money to start a business, is modular synthesis. I was never one for quantised notes which leads to really interesting harmonies and ideas to explore. I think I would find a similar love here.

No problem. I'm over in Sunderland, but if you ever find yourself in the North East once the world is open again, you are welcome to try.

It is mainly a melodic instrument with drones for harmony, as is most traditional arabic music. I just adore the sound so much. A whole new world of articulation, once reserved for 'real' string players, opens up too.
I studied some microtonal music at university, but it was mainly microtonal piano which was 'quantised' as you say to be, perfectly tuned quarter flat, etc. So although it opens up a whole new world, its still very rigid, as is typical of western music haha.

Just to add fuel to your microtonal synth fire, have you heard of Dolores Catherino? She creates some pretty unique, beautiful, bizarre sounds with a myriad of weird synths.


An lastly, before I leave you be, if you are interested in microtonal piano music, I think Ivan Wyschnegradsky was one of the more interesting composers. Shame he never got any recognition outside of the 'specialist' circles.

m0rt

So....was just doing my usual half-arsed searching on fretless and this came up.

Didn't realise Ibanez did a Fretless. Part of the Oriental series I think, Endorsed by Kamal Mussallam.

Anyway.

Bought it.

Better sell this Santa Fe now then.

GTC

Well - that looks a bit different and rather nice. Congratulations.