Tour De France time fast approaching - No Froome/Thomas

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  • littlegreenmanlittlegreenman Frets: 4958
    edited September 2020
    ronnyb said:
    axisus said:
    No Froome and no Thomas is a downer for me. Can't get excited about it this year.
    Yeah same for me, normally an avid watcher, skytrain and all that, didn't even watch the highlights today, Adam Yates has a chance though. 

    I grew up watching Le Tour when the only British success was Pippa Yorke winning the King of the Mountains and Sean Yates grabbing Yellow, so the lack of home grown talent isn't an issue for me. Le Tour is Le Tour. I watch it because it's cycling at it's absolute peak, a beautiful drama played out through 3 weeks of brutality and pain, lol

    Caleb Ewan's run to the line the other day was one of best sprints I've ever seen and I doubt it'll be bested for many years for sheer skill and power. And I get the feeling we'll see some proper head to head action amongst the GC contenders once they hit the high mountains. That's what I've always enjoyed, regardless of who's racing.

    As far as British riders go, the Yates twins are probably where the future lies for now. Simon has already won a Grand Tour (La Vuelta) and with Adam headed to Ineos next year the future's still looking good, as long as you can stomach Lancashire boys winning at cycling ;)
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  • ewalewal Frets: 2558
    I don't care about the nationality of the riders either. Well apart from maybe the French because of their long history of producing riders with a bit of flair.

    Quite a good tour so far with stages giving attacking riders a chance. Obviously big teams are waiting for the serious mountains.
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14026
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    ronnyb said:
    axisus said:
    No Froome and no Thomas is a downer for me. Can't get excited about it this year.
    Yeah same for me, normally an avid watcher, skytrain and all that, didn't even watch the highlights today, Adam Yates has a chance though. 

    I grew up watching Le Tour when the only British success was Pippa Yorke winning the King of the Mountains and Sean Yates grabbing Yellow, so the lack of home grown talent isn't an issue for me. Le Tour is Le Tour. I watch it because it's cycling at it's absolute peak, a beautiful drama played out through 3 weeks of brutality and pain, lol

    Caleb Ewan's run to the line the other day was one of best sprints I've ever seen and I doubt it'll be bested for many years for sheer skill and power. And I get the feeling we'll see some proper head to head action amongst the GC contenders once they hit the high mountains. That's what I've always enjoyed, regardless of who's racing.

    As far as British riders go, the Yates twins are probably where the future lies for now. Simon has already won a Grand Tour (La Vuelta) and with Adam headed to Ineos next year the future's still looking good, as long as you can stomach Lancashire boys winning at cycling ;)
    agree about Caleb's finish - That turn of pace from a few yards behind was electric - Only seen the highlights show so far and starting to wind up - Today + weekend look interesting and maybe some movement for the yellow jersey 
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    littlegreenman said:

    I grew up watching Le Tour when the only British success was Pippa Yorke winning the King of the Mountains and Sean Yates grabbing Yellow, so the lack of home grown talent isn't an issue for me. Le Tour is Le Tour.
    Me too. I remember getting excited because Malcolm Elliott came 5th in a sprint! My dad was an amazing Amateur cyclist and my mum was in his old cycling club as well so the interest was there very early for me. I remember the days when all we got on TV was a 20 minute round up of the week on Grandstand on a Saturday. 

    To be honest my love of the event (and it was love!) died with the Armstrong scandal. I felt I'd been cheated of 7 years, although there were other cheats before and after. To make matters worse Armstrong was such a ****. I never liked him, but I did admire him greatly.

    The other thing that lost a bit of magic for me was 2003 (I believe) when it became a rule that everyone had to wear a helmet. It was 100% the right thing to do, but the whole peleton instantly seemed to lose its personality. Everyone looked the same.

    Note: You confused me with the Pippa York comment! Of course, it was Robert Millar at the time. Loved his years on the tour! Best of luck to Pippa York in her new life.
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    Looks like Team Ineos got it wrong yet again. Bernal out of the running. Where are Thomas and Froome? Oh yes, they didn't invite them. I've often thought that they had a fairly shambolic approach of putting all their eggs in one basket. I remember the year after Wiggins won, they didn't let him ride the next tour and Froome crashed out after a few stages. 
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  • sev112sev112 Frets: 2739
    axisus said:
    Looks like Team Ineos got it wrong yet again. Bernal out of the running. Where are Thomas and Froome? Oh yes, they didn't invite them. I've often thought that they had a fairly shambolic approach of putting all their eggs in one basket. I remember the year after Wiggins won, they didn't let him ride the next tour and Froome crashed out after a few stages. 
    Wigguns didn’t want to go again. Froome wanted lead after proving in 2012 that he could win.  
    But eggs in one basket?  2 years ago Froome had a bit of a struggle and Thomas steps in and wins. Last year Thomas struggles then Bernal steps in and wins.  

    Thomas and Froome not quite fit for the tour and focusing on Giro and Vuelta separately.  Of course If you ask Them I’m sure they’d want to be at the tour.
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  • Fook me! Most surprising and exciting Tour de France last day in a generation. Maybe even more than the 1989 Fignon - LeMonde finale on the Champs? What a day...

    Yes, Tadej Pogačar still has to not fall off his bike tomorrow but all being well it's a done deal.

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  • What a finish! You’ve got to feel sorry for Roglic. He had nothing left in the tank at the end. But cycling can often be cruel. Looking forward to seeing Sam Bennett try and hold off Peter Sagan today. He should, but after yesterday...  he might not even finish. 
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14026
    tFB Trader
    Fook me! Most surprising and exciting Tour de France last day in a generation. Maybe even more than the 1989 Fignon - LeMonde finale on the Champs? What a day...

    Yes, Tadej Pogačar still has to not fall off his bike tomorrow but all being well it's a done deal.

    Agree - I was not going to even watch the time trials/hi-light show - Then caught a news flash and couldn't believe so managed to catch the hi-light show in the end - Rolic and the team have put in a stella performance for 3 weeks and would have deserved the win - But well done Pogacar and such a young age
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  • sev112sev112 Frets: 2739
    Look at the team that Jumbo had out there and how they all performed !  Then look at who Pogacar had and how he performed .  Puts his win in an even higher level of respect if that’s possible.
    really good tour.  

    I’d forgotten about this, but turns out that the inspectors take apart (various or the winner?) bikes after each stage to make sure there are no batteries or motors in in!  Is this the new drugs ?

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  • sev112 said:
    Look at the team that Jumbo had out there and how they all performed !  Then look at who Pogacar had and how he performed .  Puts his win in an even higher level of respect if that’s possible.
    really good tour.  

    I’d forgotten about this, but turns out that the inspectors take apart (various or the winner?) bikes after each stage to make sure there are no batteries or motors in in!  Is this the new drugs ?


    "Mechanical doping". Yep, it's kind of a thing, and there have been riders banned for it.

    UCI have been using tech to overcome it but there's bound to be ways around it (bike swaps, etc).



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  • Fine finish by Sam Bennett yesterday evening. Suitable end to an interesting Tour. Now onto the Giro and the Vuelta! 
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  • ewalewal Frets: 2558
    Great tour and finish. Also good that someone won from a team which didn't employ dull Team Sky attritional tactics
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    What a finish! You’ve got to feel sorry for Roglic. 
    I don't feel sorry for Roglic, he gave it his best shot over 3 weeks but Pogacar was the better man.

    I feel sorry for anyone who should have won but was denied by the drug cheat 'winners' during all those years of shame. Armstrong and Landis have been struck off of the results, but let's face it, Riis, Ullrich and Contador were also winners who either failed drug tests or admitted to taking them.


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  • sev112sev112 Frets: 2739
    And not many 2ndplace winners stood up to claim the titles they “lost”
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11411
    axisus said:
    What a finish! You’ve got to feel sorry for Roglic. 
    I don't feel sorry for Roglic, he gave it his best shot over 3 weeks but Pogacar was the better man.

    I feel sorry for anyone who should have won but was denied by the drug cheat 'winners' during all those years of shame. Armstrong and Landis have been struck off of the results, but let's face it, Riis, Ullrich and Contador were also winners who either failed drug tests or admitted to taking them.



    Not just them.  Pantani (1998 winner) was booted off the 1999 Giro, and was later implicated in the operation Puerto blood doping scandal.

    There is a lot of suspicion about Indurain as well.

    If you go to that era then it was absolutely rife.  Basically all the top riders were at it.  If you look at Armstrong's last tour "win" in 2005, the top 7 riders in that race, plus Landis in 9th, were subsequently exposed for drugs at some point.

    The sport is cleaner now, and any blood doping is a lot more subtle.  There are still all these questionable asthma medications though.
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    crunchman said:

    There is a lot of suspicion about Indurain as well.

    We will never know now if Indurain was a drug cheat, but he was a real freak of nature and probably had the natural attributes to be the best at his time:

    According to the University of Ferrara, who conducted tests on Induráin, his strength came from his body's superior physiology. His blood took 7 litres of oxygen around his body per minute, compared to 3–4 litres for an ordinary person and 5–6 litres for fellow riders. His cardiac output was 50 litres a minute; a fit amateur cyclist's is about 25 litres. Induráin's lung capacity was 7.8 litres, compared to an average of 6 litres. His resting pulse was as low as 28 BPM, compared to an average 60–72 bpm, which meant his heart would be less strained in the tough mountain stages
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11411
    axisus said:
    crunchman said:

    There is a lot of suspicion about Indurain as well.

    We will never know now if Indurain was a drug cheat, but he was a real freak of nature and probably had the natural attributes to be the best at his time:

    According to the University of Ferrara, who conducted tests on Induráin, his strength came from his body's superior physiology. His blood took 7 litres of oxygen around his body per minute, compared to 3–4 litres for an ordinary person and 5–6 litres for fellow riders. His cardiac output was 50 litres a minute; a fit amateur cyclist's is about 25 litres. Induráin's lung capacity was 7.8 litres, compared to an average of 6 litres. His resting pulse was as low as 28 BPM, compared to an average 60–72 bpm, which meant his heart would be less strained in the tough mountain stages

    Armstrong was also a freak of nature.  If everyone had been clean, he may still have dominated his era.  All the other top riders were doing it during his time, yet he was still dominant.
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  • crunchman said:
    axisus said:
    crunchman said:

    There is a lot of suspicion about Indurain as well.

    We will never know now if Indurain was a drug cheat, but he was a real freak of nature and probably had the natural attributes to be the best at his time:

    According to the University of Ferrara, who conducted tests on Induráin, his strength came from his body's superior physiology. His blood took 7 litres of oxygen around his body per minute, compared to 3–4 litres for an ordinary person and 5–6 litres for fellow riders. His cardiac output was 50 litres a minute; a fit amateur cyclist's is about 25 litres. Induráin's lung capacity was 7.8 litres, compared to an average of 6 litres. His resting pulse was as low as 28 BPM, compared to an average 60–72 bpm, which meant his heart would be less strained in the tough mountain stages

    Armstrong was also a freak of nature.  If everyone had been clean, he may still have dominated his era.  All the other top riders were doing it during his time, yet he was still dominant.
    The drugs also affect people to different levels though and some programs were more advanced than others. All you can say with certainty is that Armstrong was the best at benefiting from performance enhancing drugs.

    To be honest I think there is a question mark against all of the 80's 90's and 00's winners at least. 


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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11411
    crunchman said:
    axisus said:
    crunchman said:

    There is a lot of suspicion about Indurain as well.

    We will never know now if Indurain was a drug cheat, but he was a real freak of nature and probably had the natural attributes to be the best at his time:

    According to the University of Ferrara, who conducted tests on Induráin, his strength came from his body's superior physiology. His blood took 7 litres of oxygen around his body per minute, compared to 3–4 litres for an ordinary person and 5–6 litres for fellow riders. His cardiac output was 50 litres a minute; a fit amateur cyclist's is about 25 litres. Induráin's lung capacity was 7.8 litres, compared to an average of 6 litres. His resting pulse was as low as 28 BPM, compared to an average 60–72 bpm, which meant his heart would be less strained in the tough mountain stages

    Armstrong was also a freak of nature.  If everyone had been clean, he may still have dominated his era.  All the other top riders were doing it during his time, yet he was still dominant.
    The drugs also affect people to different levels though and some programs were more advanced than others. All you can say with certainty is that Armstrong was the best at benefiting from performance enhancing drugs.

    To be honest I think there is a question mark against all of the 80's 90's and 00's winners at least. 



    We'll never know for sure.

    Same with Indurain.  He was associated with the dodgy Dr Conconi.  Other Banesto team members have said that drugs were happening in the team.

    Were those university test results while he was dosed up on EPO?

    It is sad for those who tried to race clean in that era, but as far as I can see, all the big names were at it.
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