Taken a punt on a used mim Tele - some questions...

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LordOxygenLordOxygen Frets: 319
edited September 2020 in Guitar
I decided to take a chance on a used MIM Tele that GuitarGuitar had listed on their website last week.
They said is was 2005 vintage, however the serial number suggests its '94 or '95 so 25+ years old now. It's quite pretty really with a translucent red finish, it has some scuffs and marks but is generally in good shape -  very minimal fret wear which is nice.
The scratch plate is new and I suspect the wiring, pots and possibly the HB (factory HB routed however) are all aftermarket too. The bridge says Fender but looks aftermarket as well.

That said, I do have some questions - the tone control pot has a centre dent / stop in the middle of the turn - it sounds like it almost adds highs one side of the stop and adds bass on the other side. Any idea what this is? Having looked under the cover its like 2 pots stacked on top of each other. 

Also it has a 5 way switch, is there a standard wiring when installing a 5 way to know what's what?
1 is neck, 3 is both, 5 is bridge. However I'm not sure what position 2 and 4 are possibly a coil split of some sort?

Any info very welcome, thank you.



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Comments

  • There’s a place in the fender website where you put the serial number in and it’ll tell you exactly the year and model 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71956

    Any info very welcome, thank you.
    That's likely to be a TBX control, and if so (and original) that does indeed date it as 80s-90s. TBX stands for 'Treble Bass eXpander', but in fact it's not really, it's a bit of a con which relies on artificially strangling the sound at the centre detent position so it sounds as if it's doing that...

    (I've always thought it should stand for Total BolloX, personally ;).)

    I don't remember if they were ever fitted as stock to Mexican guitars, they were the standard fitting on the USA Standard series.

    I agree that the pickguard and probably the humbucker aren't original - the bodies were routed for a humbucker though, so it's possible. The 5-way switch might be doing all sorts of things - hard to tell without having a look at it, or testing the pickup settings by tapping on the polepieces with it plugged into an amp. A typical arrangement might be bridge, bridge+split neck, bridge+full neck, split neck, full neck - although that needs a slightly more complex switch than a standard 5-way.

    Does that help at all?

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Philly_QPhilly_Q Frets: 22516
    That said, I do have some questions - the tone control pot has a centre dent / stop in the middle of the turn - it sounds like it almost adds highs one side of the stop and adds bass on the other side. Any idea what this is? Having looked under the cover its like 2 pots stacked on top of each other. 

    That sounds like a TBX control, although I don't remember them being fitted on any MIM Fenders.

    I'm sure @ICBM or someone could explain it properly, but 0-5 acts like a normal tone control, then 5-10 sort of takes it out of the circuit altogether so it gets super bright.

    Still used on the Fender Eric Clapton Strat, I think.
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  • Thanks very much, guys.
    Most helpful.

    Having looked at TBX images I'm 99% thats what it is. Good to know it is not a faulty pot, even if not very well regarded.

    This page says it was made in '94 or '95. Which is around the time i got my first proper electric guitar as a young teenager.
    https://support.fender.com/hc/en-us/articles/214343763-How-can-I-find-out-when-my-Mexican-made-instrument-was-manufactured-


    I guess it is some sort of modded hybrid tele. Tbh i like it alot, its in open G tuning at the moment - brown suger sounds great. 
    I'd like to know what the pickups are, will have a look when i next change the strings.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71956
    Philly_Q said:

    Still used on the Fender Eric Clapton Strat, I think.
    It works well there, as it was designed to be used with active circuitry. Why they decided to put it in the standard passive guitars, I don’t know - it doesn’t sound quite ‘right’ if you’re used to a standard tone control.

    The way it actually works is that from the detent downwards it’s a normal 250K/.022uF tone control, but in parallel with an 82K resistor which is like using the low-impedance input on an amp and gives a slightly boomy tone. From the detent upwards it’s a 1M control which takes them both (almost) out of the circuit and increases brightness more than normal. The problem is that it never passes through a setting equivalent to a 250K/.047uF control on 10.

    In an active circuit the 82K resistor doesn’t affect the tone as much, so it sounds more natural at the detent position.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • LordOxygenLordOxygen Frets: 319
    edited September 2020
    It does sound too bright on 10.

    In fact I might look to change it to a more normal tone pot.
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  • KittyfriskKittyfrisk Frets: 18378
    Thanks very much, guys.
    Most helpful.

    Having looked at TBX images I'm 99% thats what it is. Good to know it is not a faulty pot, even if not very well retarded.

    FTFY ;)    Jokes aside, enjoy your guitar :+1: 
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  • If the guitar were American, it would have been named either a Fat Telecaster or a Tele SH.

    Assuming that the humbucker has four-conductor + shield output cable, the likeliest permutations in switch positions 2 and 4 are a fake Stratty in-between sound and coil split humbucker.

    A few photographs of the selector switch would soon confirm what is going on.


    Some of the Fender own brand humbuckers have three-con + shield output cable. The same circuit would still be possible.
    Be seeing you.
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  • I bought a MIM Telecaster in sunburst at a Music Show in Glasgow around 94/95. Same specs, neck humbucker, 5 way switch and TBX tone control.

    It was called a Contemporary Telecaster I believe, a name used for another totally different model as well.

    I saw it on the Fender display and asked if I could buy it, the rep sold it to me via one of the Fender dealers at the show. Cost £350.

    This model was reviewed in the Guitar Magazine at the time, was described as an unofficial Keith Richards tribute. My copy has long since been binned but I'm sure someone will still have one.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71956
    I bought a MIM Telecaster in sunburst at a Music Show in Glasgow around 94/95. Same specs, neck humbucker, 5 way switch and TBX tone control.
    Interesting! Might be original apart from the pickguard then.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Bennyboy-UKBennyboy-UK Frets: 1710
    edited September 2020
    My friend just sold his one of these he bought nearly new in about 95/96 - the 5 way and TBX were standard on that guitar along with the 6 saddle bridge - although the saddles on his were steel (or chrome plated). It had a BWB 3 ply scratchplate.

    As per @portobear_65 ;;;; - same thing Contemporary Telecaster - or Telecaster Special rings a bell?

    Cool guitar!

    I'm always looking for interesting USA Hamers for sale.

    At the moment I'm looking for:
    * Hamer Watson, SS2, Vintage S, T62.
    * Music Man Luke 1, Luke II

    Please drop me a message.
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  • gubblegubble Frets: 1737
    I'm sure that's a telecaster special...

    One was for sale on here around 5 years ago apparently......

    https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/39315/fs-ft-fender-telecaster-special-1995

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  • LordOxygenLordOxygen Frets: 319
    edited September 2020
    The wonders of TFB. Really good to understand more about what I've bought. Thank you everyone. 
    I bought it primarly as an Open G Guitar to play 'Stones songs, the neck pup does sound good.

    The photo in the for sale thread that @gubble has linked to appears to have identical hardwear so I reckon I have indeed acquired a mid 90's Tele Special. On that basis I'll leave it well alone and enjoy it for what it is. 
    Incase anyone is interested I paid £399, top money for a used guitar like this - but did have 14 days to return and a warranty. Now I know more about it I'm happy. 

    Here are some more pictures, There are 4 wires coming from the HB. 






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  • That said the fittings securing the switch don't look orginal, so perhaps it has been buggered about with at some point. 
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14321
    edited September 2020
    Indeed, it has.

    The order of the conductor insulation colour codes implies that the humbucker is a Seymour Duncan. This is good but may not be stock.
    Be seeing you.
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  • Indeed, it has.

    The order of the conductor insulation colour codes implies that the humbucker is a Seymour Duncan. This is good but may not be stock.
    Ok. Next job is to loosen the strings and slide out the pick guard to have a look at the pup...
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  • It's definitely an original model  from the mid nineties which came stock with the neck humbucker and a 70's style six saddle bridge. @gubble has it correct it was named the Special. The finishes are quite opaque around the edges and I was never sure if they were Ash bodies veneered with Ash, or a spread of other timber (Poplar? Alder?) veneered with Ash front and back. This was common Fender practice at the time on both Mexican and American made models (such as Am Std's) . I looked at buying a white Mex Special Tele around 97 which was then a 'new' guitar, but had been hanging on the dealers wall for a couple of years, so probably N4 or N5 serial number.

    In the end I bought an Amerexican California Series model, sunburst with Alder body constructed from a spread of timber veneered with alder to look nice (as I described above). The California Tele's had either a Strat Tex Mex neck pickup or the same Korean made humbucker in the neck (think Sky/ Kent Armstrong quality for the Korean humbucker). I think the 5-way wiring is original too for the Mexican Special. 
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  • Here's the HB, no markings anywhere - having read the internet I can see how the wiring colours do indicate it may be a seymour duncan unit. Could it be they supplied them to fender as an OEM pup? 








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  • Duncan OEM humbuckers look exactly like regular production line models except that they usually have short baseplate elevator screw lugs and four-con + drain cable rather than single + metal braid.

    The unmarked brass baseplate on your pickup suggests SE Asian manufacture. 
    Be seeing you.
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