Dumble (clone) vs Mesa Boogie Mark 3 Lead channel - reckon you can pick which is which?

JohnCordy

After reading up on some of the Mesa Mark series and Dumble ODS lore, apparently the structure of the lead channels is kind of similar. Often times the Mesa Mark sound seems to be synonymous with scooped tones like Metallica etc which I think is why I didn't try one till very recently...Anyway, here's the lead channel of a Ceriatone OTS50 (dumble ods clone) and the Mark 3 lead channel...Feel free to guess which is which?

Kebabkid

Nice playing and sounds and both suited the track and are that type of sound.

I'm going to go with Ceriatone as Amp A and the Mesa as Amp B

welshboyo

I should get this right as I played a III for many years in a non-Metallica setting!!! (no pressure)

Sticking my neck out and saying...

Amp A - Mesa
Amp B - OTS50

hywelg

Amp A is the Ceriatone. Note attack gives it away. 



But I might be wrong

ICBM

Dear god. I thought Amp A sounded bad until I heard Amp B.

Two overly compressed smooth sounds with no treble or bite at all. Please someone shoot me if I ever start saying anything like "oh, that's nice..."



I don't know which is which, I've never heard a Ceriatone or any other Dumble copy except a Fuchs once. If I had to guess I'd say A is the Mesa and B is the Ceriatone because the type of sounds I understand are associated with Dumble are smmmmooooothhhhhh.

Roland

You can do a lot with gain and EQ to disguise these things, and he’s says at 7:00 that the Mk3’s EQ is off. Also the Mk3 is one design, whereas there are many Dumble variants, especially once you get into clones. However I’m with @hywelg. The note development after the pick attack develops like my Dumble models in the AxeFX.

JohnCordy

@ICBM it's not exactly difficult to find an amp that'll give you a harsh and biting lead tone if that's what you're looking for...?

ICBM

JohnCordy said:

@ICBM it's not exactly difficult to find an amp that'll give you a harsh and biting lead tone if that's what you're looking for...?

No, I don't want harsh - just it not to sound like a pile of blankets over the amp.

Kebabkid

ICBM said:

JohnCordy said:

@ICBM it's not exactly difficult to find an amp that'll give you a harsh and biting lead tone if that's what you're looking for...?

No, I don't want harsh - just it not to sound like a pile of blankets over the amp.

Really? Even on the bridge pickup?

The sounds here match the style of the music and backing track and my take is that the OP is trying to emulate people associated with Dumbles or that kind of sound (Robben ford, Allen Hinds, Carlton) and does a good job.

Sassafras

I wouldn't know a Dumble if I fell over one but I didn't like amp B. It sounded too smooth and creamy, almost like a keyboard.

exocet

I'd say Amp A = OTS
That said, I could never get that tone from mine with  Strat, though managed it with a Telecaster Bridge pickup.

The Dumble ODS and Mesa Mark series do share some similarities. My understanding is that both started with a fender Blackface input section / eq and then cascaded the switchable additional 12ax7 to give more gain for overdrive. With Dumble ODS, there was no "graphic eq" post overdrive. Depending on the specific amp in question, you either had some fixed value low pass filtering on the overdrive section or there was a Marshall Plexi style TMB eq fitted to HRM models. The TMB controls were internal so not very easy to tweak on the fly.

english_bob

Kebabkid said:

ICBM said:

JohnCordy said:

@ICBM it's not exactly difficult to find an amp that'll give you a harsh and biting lead tone if that's what you're looking for...?

No, I don't want harsh - just it not to sound like a pile of blankets over the amp.

Really? Even on the bridge pickup?

The sounds here match the style of the music and backing track and my take is that the OP is trying to emulate people associated with Dumbles or that kind of sound (Robben ford, Allen Hinds, Carlton) and does a good job.

To me it sounds like there's bite there that could be drawn out with pick attack if that was what you wanted, which it isn't particularly for that sort of playing.

I still don't know if I'd recognise the sound of "A Dumble" in a track. Cloth ears, apparently.

Kebabkid

english_bob said:

Kebabkid said:

ICBM said:

JohnCordy said:

@ICBM it's not exactly difficult to find an amp that'll give you a harsh and biting lead tone if that's what you're looking for...?

No, I don't want harsh - just it not to sound like a pile of blankets over the amp.

Really? Even on the bridge pickup?

The sounds here match the style of the music and backing track and my take is that the OP is trying to emulate people associated with Dumbles or that kind of sound (Robben ford, Allen Hinds, Carlton) and does a good job.

To me it sounds like there's bite there that could be drawn out with pick attack if that was what you wanted, which it isn't particularly for that sort of playing.

I still don't know if I'd recognise the sound of "A Dumble" in a track. Cloth ears, apparently.

Yep. If you listen to players such as Allen Hinds or even Larry Carlton on Donald Fagen's 'The Nightfly', they dig in and the brightness and the chink sound of pick against string comes out.

I think these are sounds/amps for dynamic pick players

Nerine

Kebabkid said:

english_bob said:

Kebabkid said:

ICBM said:

JohnCordy said:

@ICBM it's not exactly difficult to find an amp that'll give you a harsh and biting lead tone if that's what you're looking for...?

No, I don't want harsh - just it not to sound like a pile of blankets over the amp.

Really? Even on the bridge pickup?

The sounds here match the style of the music and backing track and my take is that the OP is trying to emulate people associated with Dumbles or that kind of sound (Robben ford, Allen Hinds, Carlton) and does a good job.

To me it sounds like there's bite there that could be drawn out with pick attack if that was what you wanted, which it isn't particularly for that sort of playing.

I still don't know if I'd recognise the sound of "A Dumble" in a track. Cloth ears, apparently.

Yep. If you listen to players such as Allen Hinds or even Larry Carlton on Donald Fagen's 'The Nightfly', they dig in and the brightness and the chink sound of pick against string comes out.

I think these are sounds/amps for dynamic pick players

I’ve found that a lot of sorted amps do that. I don’t think it’s specific to Dumbles. 
My Bogner 101B used to do it when the bright switch on channel 2 was on. 
So does my JCM 800 with the gain at about 6.5 - 7.0
So does my Friedman with the bright switch on. 
My Two Rock also did similar. 

I’ve also had a lot of amps that don’t do it. 

I think it’s more specifically to do where the presence peak in the EQ section sits. 

I tend to hear it as more a clacky thwack that I really like. 

I also think the pickups contribute to it. 

But yes. I agree that it’s definitely a characteristic, but I don’t think Dumbles have it exclusively. 

ToneControl

 A sounds like all the demo vids years ago 

Stratavarious

My lovely purple stripe MarkIII does both those tones.  So I can’t pick.

I would say moving the bass control a notch would make the difference i can hear here if i was replicating either.     Amp A has a fuzzy bass sound that is familiar when I leave the bass too open but I can dial that out.  The presence control makes a big difference to the overall bite and attack of the Mark III.

Nick13

JohnCordy said:

After reading up on some of the Mesa Mark series and Dumble ODS lore, apparently the structure of the lead channels is kind of similar. Often times the Mesa Mark sound seems to be synonymous with scooped tones like Metallica etc which I think is why I didn't try one till very recently...Anyway, here's the lead channel of a Ceriatone OTS50 (dumble ods clone) and the Mark 3 lead channel...Feel free to guess which is which?

Thats not an uncommon viewpoint but mk series are some of the most mid heavy amos going.  I just sold my mkv because I couldn't handle the overbearing mids. Great for cutting through a live mix though. To achieve a death metal tone I was literally running the mid knob on 1 and the eq v'd.  Even then it was heavy on the mid range compared to other amps

AndyJP

Nice playing!

I reckon:
Amp A is the MESA
Amp B is the OTS50

JohnCordy

@AndyJP cheers Andy! It was actually the other way round!

AndyJP

Wow the mark 3 sounds so much smoother!

ICBM

Nick13 said:

Thats not an uncommon viewpoint but mk series are some of the most mid heavy amos going.  I just sold my mkv because I couldn't handle the overbearing mids. Great for cutting through a live mix though. To achieve a death metal tone I was literally running the mid knob on 1 and the eq v'd.  Even then it was heavy on the mid range compared to other amps 

The only way I can get an overdrive sound out of a Mark Series that I can actually tolerate is with the mid control on zero and the graphic EQ set to the full deep V... and I don't play metal of any kind.

It's frustrating, when the King Snake - essentially a MkI - has probably the best clipped-clean sound of any amp I've ever heard. I just wouldn't want to own an expensive amp which has a second channel that's completely useless to me.

I never really liked Mesa amps at all until the Rectifer series came out. Even with my Trem-o-verb - a Dual Rectifier combo, basically - I would always run the bass up high and the mids low.

At least it means I don't need to think about ever owning a Dumble-type amp...