BlacK Sabbath The Wizard

Hootsmon

Me like man's tone

Is it scooped mids or added mids?

StruanRobertson

Hard to tell isn't it!

He used a treble booster, a Dallas Rangemaster I think. Also Tommy played really light strings and tuned down too to avoid causing pain to his damaged fingers. I imagine that made a difference to the sound, but in what way, I have no idea. 

ICBM

It's almost all mids, but that by itself won't get you that sound. It's a fully cranked Laney 100W stack with a treble booster and the treble and bass rolled off on the amp, I think. The bass comes from the, er... bass .

You can actually get quite close to that sound with a pedal - Catalinbread Sabbra Cadabra... or Dirty Little Secret - even though it’s meant to sound like a Marshall, it actually sounds more like a Laney to me, it has that typical grittiness. Black Country Customs do an Iommi signature pedal too, but I haven't heard it.

skippy76

+1 for the Catalinbread Sabracadabra gets you super close

ICBM

skippy76 said:

+1 for the Catalinbread Sabracadabra gets you super close

Almost hilariously so!

monquixote

The iommi boost is awesome but it's a really flexible treble boost not a MIAB type thing.

That plus a DLS and it's Sabbath for days.

nick79

It was an LA100BL into the bass channel, everything on 10 except bass on 0. Then a rangemaster, and interestingly on that track he used a strat. 

If you want that sound these days the la30bl will get you there, it sounds exactly the same as the original versions. I also use the laney ti boost, cracking pedal.

Alex2678

nick79 said:

interestingly on that track he used a strat. 

I might be mixed up but I think he used a strat on wicked world rather than the wizard

nick79

No you’re right, my mistake. Hadn’t had my morning coffee..

ICBM

nick79 said:

It was an LA100BL into the bass channel, everything on 10 except bass on 0.

Interesting - I assumed it was the treble channel with the treble rolled off, but that would make sense. The bass channel really is amazingly thick and bassy on those.

nick79 said:

If you want that sound these days the la30bl will get you there, it sounds exactly the same as the original versions.

The guitarist in my band would be interested to hear that - he’s currently borrowing an old LA60 which sounds perfect (with a load box to halve the power) - he wants a LA30 but hasn’t been sure if it will sound the same, after being disappointed with the Marshall SV20.

nick79

Ive compared it to an original 100w, and to me it sounded identical, just not as loud obviously. A friend of mine whose opinion on all things Laney and Sabbath I trust has a reissue 100w and has recently got the 30w, he reckons they are the same too. 

It really does nail that sound, and I don’t think there’s anything else out there that quite does the same, cranked up you get this glorious kind of lower harmonic thing going on - I’ve no idea what makes it sound the way I does but I’m guessing you will have more of an idea? 

Cleans are great too! It is loud though if you want it to break up (and it never breaks up massively) but hit it with a boost and it’s awesome. 

ICBM

nick79 said:

Ive compared it to an original 100w, and to me it sounded identical, just not as loud obviously. A friend of mine whose opinion on all things Laney and Sabbath I trust has a reissue 100w and has recently got the 30w, he reckons they are the same too.

That's really everything he wants to hear...

nick79 said:

It really does nail that sound, and I don’t think there’s anything else out there that quite does the same, cranked up you get this glorious kind of lower harmonic thing going on - I’ve no idea what makes it sound the way I does but I’m guessing you will have more of an idea?

Essentially it's a copy of a Marshall Super Bass circuit - but the physical construction is a bit different, and they use different transformers with higher voltages, which I think is responsible for that distinctive harmonic grit compared to the Marshall.

nick79 said:

Cleans are great too! It is loud though if you want it to break up (and it never breaks up massively) but hit it with a boost and it’s awesome. 

That's what we've found with the LA60 - his normal amp is an Orange Rocker 30 (which is perfect, volume-wise) so we were deliberately running it with the load box to equalise it. The Laney sounds amazing clean or pushed a bit, but more importantly it took all the pedals he threw at it and just sounded immense... the problem with the Marshall SV20 was that it fell down badly when driven hard with a distortion or fuzz, and turned into a sort of 'one note' mush.

He's just slightly nervous after that experience to buy a new LA30BL untried - he might buy the old 60, but it's too much amp really, probably more than he wants to spend, and I can't guarantee its reliability in the same way as I could with a modern amp.

Apologies to Hootsmon for hijacking his thread . Although I suspect it may help a bit too...

nick79

I would tell him to get the 30, if he likes the 60 he can’t go wrong to be honest. 

I’m yet to find a pedal that doesn’t sound fantastic through it, I don’t even care there’s no no effects loop. 

One thing I haven’t done with it yet is experimenting with speakers, I’ve just been using eminence governers but I really want to try a cream back 65.

EricTheWeary

nick79 said:

Ive compared it to an original 100w, and to me it sounded identical, just not as loud obviously. A friend of mine whose opinion on all things Laney and Sabbath I trust has a reissue 100w and has recently got the 30w, he reckons they are the same too. 

It really does nail that sound, and I don’t think there’s anything else out there that quite does the same, cranked up you get this glorious kind of lower harmonic thing going on - I’ve no idea what makes it sound the way I does but I’m guessing you will have more of an idea? 

Cleans are great too! It is loud though if you want it to break up (and it never breaks up massively) but hit it with a boost and it’s awesome. 

In reviews of the 30 they always talk about that lower harmonic thing. I slightly wonder if you were trying to get an Iommi-ish tone without the gear if a bit of octave below in the mix wouldn’t hurt. 

Anyway, not hear The Wizard probably for years. Still sounds so great, amazing how it stands up. 

nick79

It might work, but I think the magic with the Laney is it only occurs on certain notes. But it’s got to be cranked to get it, at least 7 on the gain (volume) and boosted a bit. 

Bloody glorious when it does it though! 

And even when on 10 and pushed it never compresses very much, just sounds monstrous.