You know 19xx Les Paul Juniors..

skunkwerx

That we see for crazy monies. 

I suppose some of them would be custom shops? Or would they? Did they even do custom shop Juniors back then? 

Say a 19xx LPJ, no mention of custom shop in it. 

They’re all worth a pretty penny. 

Were they anything special as such at the time? Ir just a bog standard run of the mill LPJ thats now old? 

Would they be the equivalent of the time to my 2019 LPJ? Which as far as I know is just the normal, standard run type thing from the current original collection? Ie not a tribute, special or re-issue? 

Not that it will be the ‘same equivalent’ in 50 years from now, as manufacturing methods change.. 

Am I even making sense? Lol

WezV

50's ones, or another decade?

juniors were just the student model of the 50's.  Gibson did do a small number of factory special orders in the 50's, but I doubt that happened to many juniors.   (other than a few that were apparently black from the factory)

They were simple to build, but use good quality wood and parts because that's what Gibson had.   

HAL9000

Any guitars from the 50s or 60s have some ‘mojo’ (for want of a better word) and are desirable because they were there at the beginnings of rock’n’roll. My two cents is that any guitar built today will never have that same appeal - even in sixty or seventy years time; the desirable electrics will always be those from the 50s or 60s.

skunkwerx

WezV said:

50's ones, or another decade?

juniors were just the student model of the 50's.  Gibson did do a small number of factory special orders in the 50's, but I doubt that happened to many juniors.   (other than a few that were apparently black from the factory)

They were simple to build, but use good quality wood and parts because that's what Gibson had.   

Yeah thats it, 50’s era.. haha glad you cottoned on, in my mind 19xx was 50’s/60’s but could have meant 1999 to someone else haha.

Cheers man

HAL9000 said:

Any guitars from the 50s or 60s have some ‘mojo’ (for want of a better word) and are desirable because they were there at the beginnings of rock’n’roll. My two cents is that any guitar built today will never have that same appeal - even in sixty or seventy years time; the desirable electrics will always be those from the 50s or 60s.

Cheers bud. 

Yeah it was a pretty dumb question. I guess I just never researched it properly. 

Just thought hmm, are all the old vintage Gibsons mainly CS or do the standard run models have the same appeal due to the era/age! 

WezV

Okay.

So yeah  no actual custom shop in the 50's

Just Customs, standards, specials, Juniors and 3/4 size Juniors. (For les pauls)


There are a very small number of non standard colours or hardware options but most are still things that Gibson was offering at the time.  Like the black Juniors, a red les paul, addition of a Bigsby ... nothing truly like the custom shop now

Philly_Q

I risk exposing my shaky knowledge of Gibson history here (and it's the wrong place to do it), but original Juniors - in various styles and shapes - were only made from the mid '50s to the early '60s, then I don't think they were made at all until at least the late '80s when the Custom Shop opened (although it may not have officially been called the Custom Shop to begin with).

(There was a singlecut LP Special reissue, of sorts, around 1974 but no Juniors, as far as I know.)

All the Juniors made since then will be either Historic/Custom Shop or Gibson USA models and the differences between the two are fairly clear - different tuners, different bridges, multi-piece bodies etc.  I don't think there are any run-of-the-mill Gibson USA Juniors with proper vintage specs (although the Gibson USA Juniors introduced in the last couple of years are pretty close).

idiotwindow

Philly_Q said:

although the Gibson USA Juniors introduced in the last couple of years are pretty close.

Black knobs and individual tuners seems to be about the only significant differences. The Lukas Nelson signature addresses those and also has a slightly different P90 and a satin finish (is that vintage spec?) for a few hundred extra quid if you want to get even closer to the 50s models. (The Nelson signature Junior also has a Mojoaxe type tailpiece but that is presumably not vintage 50s spec?).

ICBM

Just to be pedantic, an LPJ is not the same thing as a Les Paul Junior - LP Jr - it's a two-humbucker, four-knob, tune-o-matic guitar with a matt finish, like a cheaper version of a Les Paul Studio.

WezV

ICBM said:

Just to be pedantic, an LPJ is not the same thing as a Les Paul Junior - LP Jr - it's a two-humbucker, four-knob, tune-o-matic guitar with a matt finish, like a cheaper version of a Les Paul Studio.

yeah, that was a particularly silly name

ICBM

WezV said:

yeah, that was a particularly silly name

No more silly than the Custom Special... you have to wonder who thinks them up.

WezV

ICBM said:

WezV said:

yeah, that was a particularly silly name

No more silly than the Custom Special... you have to wonder who thinks them up.

must be a random word generator somewhere in Gibson HQ

Philly_Q

idiotwindow said:

Philly_Q said:

although the Gibson USA Juniors introduced in the last couple of years are pretty close.

Black knobs and individual tuners seems to be about the only significant differences. The Lukas Nelson signature addresses those and also has a slightly different P90 and a satin finish (is that vintage spec?) for a few hundred extra quid if you want to get even closer to the 50s models. (The Nelson signature Junior also has a Mojoaxe type tailpiece but that is presumably not vintage 50s spec?).

The satin finish isn't vintage spec, they'd have been gloss originally but most of the old ones have now acquired a patina so they look satin.  Sort of. 

Interestingly, the compensated-ridge tailpiece (not, indeed, vintage spec) is made by TonePros, but I haven't been able to find them for sale separately (presumably they'd be a bit cheaper than MojoAxe).

skunkwerx

ICBM said:

WezV said:

yeah, that was a particularly silly name

No more silly than the Custom Special... you have to wonder who thinks them up.

Interesting! Never knew that... 

idiotwindow

Philly_Q said:

idiotwindow said:

Philly_Q said:

although the Gibson USA Juniors introduced in the last couple of years are pretty close.

Black knobs and individual tuners seems to be about the only significant differences. The Lukas Nelson signature addresses those and also has a slightly different P90 and a satin finish (is that vintage spec?) for a few hundred extra quid if you want to get even closer to the 50s models. (The Nelson signature Junior also has a Mojoaxe type tailpiece but that is presumably not vintage 50s spec?).

Interestingly, the compensated-ridge tailpiece (not, indeed, vintage spec) is made by TonePros, but I haven't been able to find them for sale separately (presumably they'd be a bit cheaper than MojoAxe).

That is interesting. Nelson's own Junior apparently has a MojoAxe on it (according to a Rig Rundown video). In the Gibson video promoting the signature guitar, Nelson implies there was a lengthy collaborative effort between him and Gibson to improve the intonation. Not sure why they couldn't just commission MojoAxe to make them? Incidentally, I'm not sure the TonePros version would be significantly cheaper – they offer a vintage wraparound (not sure if it is finely compensated) for a similar price to MojoAxe. 

Philly_Q

idiotwindow said:

Not sure why they couldn't just commission MojoAxe to make them? Incidentally, I'm not sure the TonePros version would be significantly cheaper – they offer a vintage wraparound (not sure if it is finely compensated) for a similar price to MojoAxe. 

I assumed TonePros would be cheaper just because they'd be more geared up for mass production.  The one in the link includes the locking studs as well, so that's probably half the total price.

I've got one of those TonePros VTNA wraparounds and although it says it's "engineered specially with “INVISI-Fulcrum” which allows strings to fulcrum on the bridge cleanly for exceptional intonation and increased harmonic overtones" it is, as far as I can tell, a bog-standard Gotoh aluminium tailpiece with a grub screw at each end.

Going back to the Lukas Nelson one, I only know it's a TonePros bridge because Trogly reviewed the guitar on his YouTube channel and took it to bits.  It's at approx. 6'25" in the video below:

idiotwindow

Philly_Q said:

idiotwindow said:

Not sure why they couldn't just commission MojoAxe to make them? Incidentally, I'm not sure the TonePros version would be significantly cheaper – they offer a vintage wraparound (not sure if it is finely compensated) for a similar price to MojoAxe. 

Going back to the Lukas Nelson one, I only know it's a TonePros bridge because Trogly reviewed the guitar on his YouTube channel and took it to bits.  It's at approx. 6'25" in the video below:

Interesting(ish) that Gibson used 'aged' hardware. I must have missed that when reading the spec for the guitar and I guess that's another difference between the signature guitar and the regular 2019 Junior. (Being super nerdy, the jackplate, being metal, is also different to the plastic 2019 one). I have recently been in the market for a new Junior and did consider buying the Nelson signature but I was able to find a regular 2019 Junior for £300 cheaper and I didn't feel the minor differences warranted the extra money. The Junior I bought is also quite a good weight at 7lbs 7oz.

underdog

WezV said:

ICBM said:

Just to be pedantic, an LPJ is not the same thing as a Les Paul Junior - LP Jr - it's a two-humbucker, four-knob, tune-o-matic guitar with a matt finish, like a cheaper version of a Les Paul Studio.

yeah, that was a particularly silly name

What about the short lived LPJ from 2013 ish , it was not a junior, almost virtually a studio but with a maple neck, very odd naming with that one.

ICBM

underdog said:

What about the short lived LPJ from 2013 ish , it was not a junior, almost virtually a studio but with a maple neck, very odd naming with that one.

That's the one I meant. Nothing like a Junior at all - like a Les Paul Studio but with a maple neck (good), crap pickups (bad) and a really cheap-looking matt finish (ugly).

Or the Custom Special which is nothing like either a Custom or a Special, but more like a cross between a The Paul, a Melody Maker and a Fender . (And which I quite like the look of...)

underdog

ICBM said:

underdog said:

What about the short lived LPJ from 2013 ish , it was not a junior, almost virtually a studio but with a maple neck, very odd naming with that one.

That's the one I meant. Nothing like a Junior at all - like a Les Paul Studio but with a maple neck (good), crap pickups (bad) and a really cheap-looking matt finish (ugly).

Or the Custom Special which is nothing like either a Custom or a Special, but more like a cross between a The Paul, a Melody Maker and a Fender . (And which I quite like the look of...)

Now see I love the matt gold, it's probably my favourite colour on my Les Pauls, the pickups are standard Les Paul affairs in odd EMG like covers

ICBM

underdog said:

Now see I love the matt gold, it's probably my favourite colour on my Les Pauls, the pickups are standard Les Paul affairs in odd EMG like covers

Yes, I do actually like the matt gold, they used that on the Custom Special as well. The brown and red garden furniture stain ones are just awful though.

If the pickups are the 490R/498T that are normally in a modern Les Paul that would probably explain why I didn’t like them... I didn’t look underneath.

sofasteve

ICBM said:

underdog said:

What about the short lived LPJ from 2013 ish , it was not a junior, almost virtually a studio but with a maple neck, very odd naming with that one.

That's the one I meant. Nothing like a Junior at all - like a Les Paul Studio but with a maple neck (good), crap pickups (bad) and a really cheap-looking matt finish (ugly).

Or the Custom Special which is nothing like either a Custom or a Special, but more like a cross between a The Paul, a Melody Maker and a Fender . (And which I quite like the look of...)

I've got a Costom Special in black. I quite like it's looks too but I seem to be in the minority.