Why do you get a warmer Neck Pickup tone on a 22 fret guitar than a 24 fret.

GuyBoden

The neck pickup on a 22 fret guitar is much warmer sounding than the same pickup on a 24 fret guitar.

But, why?

I was thinking that the distance between the fret and pickup on a 22 fret and a 24 fret guitar must be the same at some points on both guitars. Say, 5th fret on a 22fret guitar and 8th fret on a 24fret guitar, so should sound similar. The fact is that a 22 fret guitar's neck pickup does sound warmer than the equivalent 24 fret guitar.

It's a very interesting subject, an intriguing phenomenon.

the_jaffa

On a 22 it’s further from the bridge so picks up larger string vibrations

Whitecat

GuyBoden

the_jaffa said:

On a 22 it’s further from the bridge so picks up larger string vibrations

Many thanks, so it's just a simple bit of physics.

Keefy

This is why I've never cared for 24-fret necks - the neck pickup doesn't sound right to me, either on its own or combined with the bridge pickup.

GuyBoden

Whitecat said:

er

Wow, very nice explanation indeed.

carlos

True although not all 21/22 fret guitars have the neck pickup all the way up to the edge of the fretboard. I think the Gibson SG has the neck pickup on the same position regardless of having 22 or 24 frets.

GuyBoden

carlos said:

True although not all 21/22 fret guitars have the neck pickup all the way up to the edge of the fretboard. I think the Gibson SG has the neck pickup on the same position regardless of having 22 or 24 frets.

Yes, I remember that the Joe Pass Ibanez from the 1980's had the pickup in a strange position.

thegummy

Whitecat said:

Love that graphic, it's so perfect for anyone who isn't following a written explanation.

I preferred the original version though where the birds only appear at the end, thought that was a lovely touch.

PonchoGreg

Anyone found any good pickup recipes (magnet type, wind, etc) that tend to mitigate that effect somewhat, i.e. a warmer, bassier neck pickup? Obviously it's physics at the end of the day but I wonder how much you can try and counterbalance that

DeeTee

The only place 24 fret necks make sense to me is on an SG. It doesn't affect the pickup placing for the neck. There's space there anyway, why not put a couple of frets in there?

thegummy

DeeTee said:

The only place 24 fret necks make sense to me is on an SG. It doesn't affect the pickup placing for the neck. There's space there anyway, why not put a couple of frets in there?

Totally, I've always found it so strange that they put the neck pickup in the bad position even though there's room to move it!

RandallFlagg

thegummy said:

DeeTee said:

The only place 24 fret necks make sense to me is on an SG. It doesn't affect the pickup placing for the neck. There's space there anyway, why not put a couple of frets in there?

Totally, I've always found it so strange that they put the neck pickup in the bad position even though there's room to move it!

If you hollow out the space right next to the fretboard on an SG to move the neck pickup closer you are basically mining into the neck joint and will end up with a very weak and wobbly join and eventually two separate bits of wood!

same on a double cut away LP Special.

TTBZ

I actually like the neck pickup on an SG. It's not as muddy as an LP so you still get the smoother kind of tone but without flubbing out.

Voxman

TTBZ said:

I actually like the neck pickup on an SG. It's not as muddy as an LP so you still get the smoother kind of tone but without flubbing out.

+1 

normula1

PonchoGreg said:

Anyone found any good pickup recipes (magnet type, wind, etc) that tend to mitigate that effect somewhat, i.e. a warmer, bassier neck pickup? Obviously it's physics at the end of the day but I wonder how much you can try and counterbalance that

Try turning the neck pickup round so the  crew coil faces the bridge. This has the effect of putting the slug coil which according to Gibson has more power closer to the position it would be on a 22 fret guitar. I did this on my 24 fret SG and whilst it didn't totally cure it I found it made a positive difference and it's free and totally reversible.

DeeTee

I definitely like the SG neck pickup, I just don't get why it's not more common to fill the space with frets, rather than a wee bit of plastic.

thegummy

DeeTee said:

I definitely like the SG neck pickup, I just don't get why it's not more common to fill the space with frets, rather than a wee bit of plastic.

I do totally agree. When I was agreeing before I got caught up in "why not just move the pickup" but what I really mean is, "either move the pickup OR add the extra frets" - don't understanding having the worst of both worlds.

Edit: "worst of both worlds" was a bad way to put it actually since some people do prefer the pickup being closer to the bridge; I really mean that on a 22 fret, the extra frets are sacrificed to get the pickup position so on an SG why not have the frets when it's not even going to be a sacrifice?

thegummy

RandallFlagg said:

If you hollow out the space right next to the fretboard on an SG to move the neck pickup closer you are basically mining into the neck joint and will end up with a very weak and wobbly join and eventually two separate bits of wood!

same on a double cut away LP Special.

TTBZ said:

I actually like the neck pickup on an SG. It's not as muddy as an LP so you still get the smoother kind of tone but without flubbing out.

  I wonder what the reason was behind the decision to move the neck pickup from the position it was in the Les Paul (or the previous version of the Les Paul as the SG was at the time) - was it because they had to move it for the reason Randall mentions or was it a deliberate move in order to get a different sound? Maybe a bit of both?

RandallFlagg

thegummy said:

RandallFlagg said:

If you hollow out the space right next to the fretboard on an SG to move the neck pickup closer you are basically mining into the neck joint and will end up with a very weak and wobbly join and eventually two separate bits of wood!

same on a double cut away LP Special.

TTBZ said:

I actually like the neck pickup on an SG. It's not as muddy as an LP so you still get the smoother kind of tone but without flubbing out.

  I wonder what the reason was behind the decision to move the neck pickup from the position it was in the Les Paul (or the previous version of the Les Paul as the SG was at the time) - was it because they had to move it for the reason Randall mentions or was it a deliberate move in order to get a different sound? Maybe a bit of both?

If Gibson had designed the SG neck and fretboard to set into the body so the last number frets were inside the body edge like a Les Paul and set the bridge back further accordingly they could have kept the typical 22 fret guitar pickup spacing and position of the neck pickup. I reckon they focussed on a desire to have all frets accessible with no overlap onto the body but realised that this would need the neck pickup to be moved to allow the neck tenon to remain undisturbed where it crosses into the body. 

guitargeek62

thegummy said:

Whitecat said:

Love that graphic, it's so perfect for anyone who isn't following a written explanation.

I preferred the original version though where the birds only appear at the end, thought that was a lovely touch.

The original was also more accurate in that the neck, bridge, and bridge pickup move relative to the body and neck pickup, which is how the PRS 22 and 24 designs actually differ. This version implies that it’s just the fretboard that extends, and the neck pickup moves as a reault.