Is it normal for a string to be sharp when a Capo is used?

Rocker

I have started using a Capo occasionally and on my Epi LP, with the Capo on the second fret, that the low E string and the A string are playing a tad sharp.  Enough to make chords sound off.  This does not happen on every guitar but varies from acceptable to sharp as on the Epi.

On the Epi I need to retune when using the Capo, after which the chords sound fine.  Is this normal or can anything be done to fix the problem?  I have toyed with the idea of getting an Earvana nut fitted in place of the stock nut.  This will have to wait until after the lockdown..

The Capo I use is a G7, a slightly smaller model that I bought after my original G7 capo fell apart and got added to the recycling bin.

Winny_Pooh

Retuning is normal

stickyfiddle

Where exactly are you placing the capo, and how tight are you fitting it?

A little string pull is normal but you can minimise it by making sure you place the capo almost touching the back edge of the fret (ie not halfway between the 2 frets) and by installing it with just enough pressure to stop the strings buzzing, and no more.

ICBM

What stickyfiddle said...

The capo should be right up against the fret, with the front edge of the capo's rubber pad along the back edge of the fret crown. If it's further away from the fret than that it will pull the strings down into the space between the frets and they'll go sharp, most noticeably on the thicker ones.

If it varies from guitar to guitar it may be due to the fingerboard radius - if the capo is exactly the same radius as the board, you'll need to tighten it the least until all six strings are firmly on the fret, but if it's different then some strings will need to be pulled down harder before the remaining ones are tight.

The problem seems to be worse with capos that don't use a spring, like the Shubb and the original G7 - they need to use the strings as the 'spring' to hold them in place. I can almost always put my Kysers on without any tuning issues - at first it was tricky to get the position exactly right, but practice makes perfect.

Sassafras

I like the Shubb. You can put just enough pressure on so the note rings out cleanly and not so much pressure that it goes sharp.

sev112

It’s always the thicker strings

Tommy Emanuel has a YouTube clip somewhere about how to out any capo on and make sure the strings don’t go out of tune

 Cant immediately find it but basically  
- put the capo on by pressing it down onto the strings and holding it there under pressure as you bring whatever clamp up from below
then (the key move) once it is on, he presses down all 6 strings with his palm to “stretch” them.  He says he has been doing this for years and he never has to retune

p90fool

Winny_Pooh said:

Retuning is normal

It really isn't. I have huge frets and 9-42 strings and use a capo for about a dozen of the songs in our set and never have to retune. 

The capo has to be the correct radius and to be practically on top of the fret just behind the peak where the strings exit. 

I just use cheapo clamp-on capos from eBay, but I have one I've bent in the vice to suit the 7.25" radius of my Strats. 

crunchman

Sassafras said:

I like the Shubb. You can put just enough pressure on so the note rings out cleanly and not so much pressure that it goes sharp.

I sold all my Shubbs on Feebay when I bough a G7th.

I found the tuning far better on the G7th.  If you fiddle around with the adjustment screw, then you can probably get the Shubb better, but it's just not practical in a live situation.  If you have a song where you use the capo on the first fret, and then another sound where you want it in the 4th fret, where the neck will be deeper, then one of them will sound badly off.  You can't be fiddling around with the screw in that setting.

With the G7th, it just adjusts itself depending on how hard you press.  In the real world, it definitely sounds more in tune than a Shubb.

thegummy

Any time I've seen a session player use a capo they've retuned after putting it on.

So it might not be necessary if people have a technique to put it on but retuning is at least common if not normal.

stickyfiddle

thegummy said:

Any time I've seen a session player use a capo they've retuned after putting it on.

So it might not be necessary if people have a technique to put it on but retuning is at least common if not normal.

I would say it’s normal to at least check your tuning - particularly if recording, as you should be checking you’re in tune before every take. 

But if you put the capo on right you’ll find you very rarely have to actually tweak anything 

ICBM

I would certainly check and retune if I was recording - but playing live, a quick strum check usually shows it's close enough.

thegummy

stickyfiddle said:

thegummy said:

Any time I've seen a session player use a capo they've retuned after putting it on.

So it might not be necessary if people have a technique to put it on but retuning is at least common if not normal.

I would say it’s normal to at least check your tuning - particularly if recording, as you should be checking you’re in tune before every take. 

But if you put the capo on right you’ll find you very rarely have to actually tweak anything 

I rarely use a capo but I'll need to learn the technique.

But the thing about only using enough pressure to stop the strings buzzing - don't think that's possible with mine, it's one of the ones like a hair clip so I don't know how I'd control the pressure it was putting on, it's just a spring.

p90fool

@thegummy that's what mine are, I don't have time for the adjustable ones, I have songs in the set capo'd at the first fret and a couple at the eighth so I have to use the spring type.

Once you get the hang of exactly where to place them though it's fine for every position and all string gauges. 

sev112

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/377669118746872424/

Found the Tommy E vid,  from about 1 minute in.  

thecolourbox

It's probably opposite to what you're supposed to do but when I capo my Acoustic I find that angling it slightly away from the frets at the higher string end helps the tuning and also gives my haha position more room.

That could be because my acoustic is shit and so is my hand position technique, but it works for me.

Could it work on yours the other way around?

thegummy

thecolourbox said:

It's probably opposite to what you're supposed to do but when I capo my Acoustic I find that angling it slightly away from the frets at the higher string end helps the tuning and also gives my haha position more room.

That could be because my acoustic is shit and so is my hand position technique, but it works for me.

Could it work on yours the other way around?

Not sure what a haha position is, I'll need to get my copy of the kama sutra out

Kittyfrisk

^  More likely to find it in Gardeners World 
https://founterior.com/what-is-a-ha-ha-wall-and-how-to-use-it-as-a-garden-fence/

thecolourbox

thegummy said:

thecolourbox said:

It's probably opposite to what you're supposed to do but when I capo my Acoustic I find that angling it slightly away from the frets at the higher string end helps the tuning and also gives my haha position more room.

That could be because my acoustic is shit and so is my hand position technique, but it works for me.

Could it work on yours the other way around?

Not sure what a haha position is, I'll need to get my copy of the kama sutra out

Ha whoops, thank you autocorrect.

Although, I do hear a lot of haha haha when I play guitar, so that could be it

thegummy

thecolourbox said:

thegummy said:

thecolourbox said:

It's probably opposite to what you're supposed to do but when I capo my Acoustic I find that angling it slightly away from the frets at the higher string end helps the tuning and also gives my haha position more room.

That could be because my acoustic is shit and so is my hand position technique, but it works for me.

Could it work on yours the other way around?

Not sure what a haha position is, I'll need to get my copy of the kama sutra out

Ha whoops, thank you autocorrect.

Although, I do hear a lot of haha haha when I play guitar, so that could be it

I hear it more often when I'm having sex

prowla

Definitely don't used one if you have scalloped frets.

ICBM

prowla said:

Definitely don't used one if you have scalloped frets.

It will make no difference. The capo should never pull the strings down far enough to touch the fingerboard even with the lowest vintage-type frets. If it does you're *definitely* fitting it too far from the fret and far too tightly.