Is there hope for my heavy Strat?

Stinkfoot

I have an 80s Elite Strat - widely regarded as one of the worst models Fender made! However it was a childhood leaving-school present and for nostalgic reasons I can’t part with it. It’s well put together though and plays like a dream...it just weighs a ton!
 

The original active pickups never sounded Stratty to
me so I had the active circuitry removed and had some Texas Specials in there....still sounded harsh and brittle to me. Recently it’s been bastardised even more with some SD single coil size humbuckers just as an experiment but I want to get it back to being just a ‘normal’ Strat. 

My dilemma is whether it’s worth spending more money on it. It weighs a ton (more like a Les Paul than a Strat) and I’m wondering if that contributes to the somewhat harsh tone I’ve always experienced with it? Does anyone have any experience with really weighty Strats and whether it’s possible to get a nice mellow vintage type tone out of them with the right pickups? If it’s never going to sound like that due to the construction then I’ll probably leave it and buy another Strat. But if the consensus is that there’s possibilities for it then I’ll carry on modding. 

Any advice/opinions much appreciated. 

soma1975

Do you like the neck?

If so get a body from @GoldenEraGuitars and load it with something nice and warm like the Mark Foley pre CBS 60s pickups. 

victorludorum

When you say 'harsh', do you mean bright and aggressive, or something like that?

ICBM

Many years ago, a chap I knew bought a '79 25th Anniversary Strat - these are also famously heavy, so when I went round to check it over and set it up for him, I was very surprised to find it only weighed about as much a typical vintage Strat. (We didn't weigh guitars in those days, but I would say about 8lb.) It also had a very nice, almost semi-acoustic-like woody tone, but I had already spotted that the pickups weren't original since they had turned steel staggered polepieces, so we opened it up to find out what they were... you can probably guess the punchline .

The pickups were in fact something cheap and Japanese, but much more importantly almost the whole area under the pickguard had been hollowed out with something like a blunt screwdriver, a small hatchet or perhaps a trained beaver... from the shape of the holes it looked like three humbuckers and an MXR pedal circuit had been fitted .

Luckily he'd got it for a good price, and it really did sound quite nice, so we just put it back together!

So... if you've already compromised it from a collector's point of view, and you're never going to sell it anyway, I would probably think about doing the same thing (but properly) - rout out the entire area under the pickguard - as much as you possibly can without weakening the neck joint or the trem screw attachment.

I know this is the opposite of what I said to the chap with the heavy Les Paul, but you're starting from a guitar you *don't* like the sound of, so it's a different question.

Funkfingers

The main problem with those 1983 Stratocasters is the Freeflyte vibrato. The “springy sound“ of a traditional six-screw fulcrum vibrato just isn’t there. This could be advantageous if you happen to want a guitar with the looks of a Stratocaster but the sound of something else.

IMO, you are better off with single coil sized humbuckers - at least, in the bridge and neck positions. 

p90fool

I have a ten pound ash Strat from 1977 and even through a 35 quid practice amp it just sounds like a Strat.

Your original pickups are not very Strat like and Texas Specials are not much better, harsh and midrangey with almost no sparkle. 

Bung a set of cheap alnico pickups in it in the 6.5-7.5k range and it will sound like a Strat, I guarantee it. 

skullfunkerry

ICBM said:

Many years ago, a chap I knew bought a '79 25th Anniversary Strat - these are also famously heavy, so when I went round to check it over and set it up for him, I was very surprised to find it only weighed about as much a typical vintage Strat. (We didn't weigh guitars in those days, but I would say about 8lb.) It also had a very nice, almost semi-acoustic-like woody tone, but I had already spotted that the pickups weren't original since they had turned steel staggered polepieces, so we opened it up to find out what they were... you can probably guess the punchline .

The pickups were in fact something cheap and Japanese, but much more importantly almost the whole area under the pickguard had been hollowed out with something like a blunt screwdriver, a small hatchet or perhaps a trained beaver... from the shape of the holes it looked like three humbuckers and an MXR pedal circuit had been fitted .

Luckily he'd got it for a good price, and it really did sound quite nice, so we just put it back together!

So... if you've already compromised it from a collector's point of view, and you're never going to sell it anyway, I would probably think about doing the same thing (but properly) - rout out the entire area under the pickguard - as much as you possibly can without weakening the neck joint or the trem screw attachment.

I know this is the opposite of what I said to the chap with the heavy Les Paul, but you're starting from a guitar you *don't* like the sound of, so it's a different question.

...and if you can make the space under the pickguard completely airtight you can fill it with helium to relieve the weight even further

JamieWakeham

My '78 is 10lb 8oz, and is really very Stratty, especially in the neck and neck+middle positions.

If yours is a lifelong keeper, than I'd agree with the above: carry out all the weight relief possible and try some decent pickups.

LastMantra

I like a bit of weight to a strat. I've never actually weighed mine but it's a big lump of alder so it's not a lightweight. It's got texmex pickups and has a nice woody vintage strat tone. 

Voxman

A very good friend of mine has a 1980 black ash Strat with the period typical bullet truss rod and 3 screw neck plate, upgraded with gold hardware, that weighs more than my LP Custom. Heaviest Strat I've ever played...looks great but I absolutely hate it (which he knows lol). Its like playing a plank of wood. It's a trem version, with original pick ups, but even after a pro setup it just sounds lifeless with no air, resonance or feel. 

My friend likes it, obviously, but for me it's just not a Strat and is positively the worst Strat I've ever played. I think there are some guitars that simply aren't worth spending money on because they are inherently 'wrong' and you fundamentally cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear.  Whether yours is one of these I dont know but if its similar to my friends Strat my recommendation would be to sell it and get a good Strat. 

Stevepage

If it holds a lot of sentimental value and you like playing it, then spend the money on getting it to sound how you want.

I have a Strat that I've had for over 20 years. Could never part with it but have spent probably double the value of the guitar on different pickups and other modifications. It was worth it in the end, I love how it is now.

thegummy

The problem with audio adjectives is that different people sometimes use the same word to mean completely different things.

But if "harsh" means what I would think it means then a Les Paul definitely isn't harsh so wouldn't that give the idea that a guitar being heavy isn't what causes that?

thegummy

p90fool said:

I have a ten pound ash Strat from 1977 and even through a 35 quid practice amp it just sounds like a Strat.

Your original pickups are not very Strat like and Texas Specials are not much better, harsh and midrangey with almost no sparkle. 

Bung a set of cheap alnico pickups in it in the 6.5-7.5k range and it will sound like a Strat, I guarantee it.

That's a 35 quid practice amp?

Doesn't sound bad at all and definitely doesn't look cheap either!

p90fool

@thegummy it's actually gone up a fiver, sorry!

https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/SubZero-Tweed-V15G-Guitar-Amp/AUW

Jimbro66

Funkfingers said:

The main problem with those 1983 Stratocasters is the Freeflyte vibrato. The “springy sound“ of a traditional six-screw fulcrum vibrato just isn’t there. This could be advantageous if you happen to want a guitar with the looks of a Stratocaster but the sound of something else.

IMO, you are better off with single coil sized humbuckers - at least, in the bridge and neck positions. 

Yep, it will almost certainly have one of these


https://reverb-res.cloudinary.com/image/upload/v1500389432/Freeflyte-1_t6aw3w.jpg

 I don’t know of any way that could be replaced with a standard Strat trem. BTW I installed a set of SD Stacked Strat pickups into a 3p/u Tele in the late 90s. They sounded close enough to a traditional Strat s/c sound for gigging and recording with the advantage of no hum. I’ve had several other guitarists listen to recordings I did with that guitar and comment “That’s a really nice sounding Strat”

ICBM

Jimbro66 said:

I don’t know of any way that could be replaced with a standard Strat trem.

The only way would be to clean it back to the wood, fill the existing bridge and trem routs with new wood, then rout the standard cavities front and back - far too much work to be worth it, really.

If you were going to go to that extreme it would be much simpler to just get a new body and have it painted to look like the old one.

You could certainly rout out all the areas between the pickup cavities (just avoiding that screw hole between the neck and middle pickups) to the same depth, and the whole depth of the area in front of the control cavity though, without compromising the structural strength - that would substantially reduce the weight.

NPP

Voxman said:

A very good friend of mine has a 1980 black ash Strat with the period typical bullet truss rod and 3 screw neck plate, upgraded with gold hardware, that weighs more than my LP Custom. Heaviest Strat I've ever played...looks great but I absolutely hate it (which he knows lol). Its like playing a plank of wood. It's a trem version, with original pick ups, but even after a pro setup it just sounds lifeless with no air, resonance or feel. 

My friend likes it, obviously, but for me it's just not a Strat and is positively the worst Strat I've ever played. I think there are some guitars that simply aren't worth spending money on because they are inherently 'wrong' and you fundamentally cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear.  Whether yours is one of these I dont know but if its similar to my friends Strat my recommendation would be to sell it and get a good Strat. 

I have one like that (except that I never weighed it) but as is the case with the OP, it's been with me since the 80s and has undergone a few mods along the way. Now that it's stripped of its finish and the neck is flat in the pocket it's become much more lively and I'm actually pleased with its sound. It has SD vintage-style pickups in the neck and middle, and an Oil City Tele pu in the bridge.   

Funkfingers

The 83 Strats and Teles had a 12” fingerboard radius. Hence, traditional single coil pickups need a similarly flat polepiece length “stagger” pattern.

jaymenon

Check the pots - are they by chance 500K? They might sound trebly with strat pickups...

usedtobe

p90fool said:

@thegummy it's actually gone up a fiver, sorry!

https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/SubZero-Tweed-V15G-Guitar-Amp/AUW

I’ve got the same amp. It’s actually helped sell a few guitars, has that amp!

Stinkfoot

Thanks for the various perspectives on this one. Sounds like it’s worth a punt on some vintage-y pickups first and then look into some routing if it still isn’t quite there. I have no issue with the weight from a playing/comfort point of view so hopefully the change of pickups will do the job.