Montys "ageing wax" snake oil? or good ?

thermionic

I read on the Taylor site that they darken eucalyptus for their boards by exposing it to gaseous ammonia for a few hours - a technique used traditionally in furniture making ((with rosewood). The darkening comes from the reaction of tannins in the wood with the ammonia. I was wondering if anybody had tried this, although I guess it wouldn’t get any darker than it was already.

WezV

thermionic said:

I read on the Taylor site that they darken eucalyptus for their boards by exposing it to gaseous ammonia for a few hours - a technique used traditionally in furniture making ((with rosewood). The darkening comes from the reaction of tannins in the wood with the ammonia. I was wondering if anybody had tried this, although I guess it wouldn’t get any darker than it was already.

I mentioned the wirewool and white vinegar trick above which does the same.

You can get amazing results by naturally darkening the woods natural tannins.   Oak will turn black because it has such a high tannin content

SteveRobinson

Potassium permanganate solution will darken wood too.

Sassafras

What I gather from this thread is that snake oil would be more effective than Monty's.

ennspek

stonevibe said:

Day Three

My cat has just confirmed his long term suspicion that I am an idiot who takes pictures of things and posts them on guitar forums. I've just applied a third coat and so this is covered in the 'wax', I'll do this for a few more days and report back my findings sometime next week.

I have buffed off the wax between coats and then reapplied each time, rubbing the wax into the grain each time. In theory, it should get darker after multiple applications.



https://i.imgur.com/JyJYgIQ.jpg

Classic bad cat/good cat!

JerkMoans

Cripes: came here looking for endorsements of the Monty's product, stayed for a load of kinky shit involving leather goods.  

markslade07

Little thread resurrection. I got some Monty's ageing wax for Xmas, as I initially wanted to darken the fretboard on my Epi ES335. I've not got round to this yet, but I thought I'd have a go ageing the back of a tele neck, as this is advertised by Monty as a way this can be used. 

So, I'll start by saying I didn't follow the instructions to begin with (I didn't try the QR Code on the side of the pot - my own fault, I just assumed it would take me to the sales website so ignored it!). Firstly I sanded off the back of the neck with some (I think) 320 grade sandpaper, and then applied a thick coat of the wax. I left this for around 6 hours or so, then wiped off. Hmmm...not a lot of change, slightly darker than the sanded neck but nothing to write home about. I did the same again (sanded back a little first), applied a coat of wax then left overnight. Upon checking the neck the next morning and cleaning it off, again, there wasn't much change, and it wasn't even back to the same colour as the original lacquer. Balls.

At this point, I thought I'd try the QR code and it took me to some instructions on how to use it. This mentioned sanding back at 240, apply water to open the grain, ensure it's completely dry, then apply the wax and leave for a few hours, preferably overnight. Again, the next morning, no real noticeable impact...maybe a bit better than without the water, but not 'aged' as yet, but the instructions did mention doing this a number of times. It also suggested patience!

I think I'm up to the 7th coat now, and I'm probably just marginally darker than the original lacquer...in some lights it looks more aged than others, but nothing like a knackered old tele neck. I've just done a couple of goes with 120 grit as it doesn't seem like the wax is penetrating the wood at all, so was hoping it might open the grain a little more. I'm going to try this one last time then knock it on the head for now I think. Perhaps this is something to do over time, but I would have thought 7 times would be enough! Maybe it's the neck wood that makes a difference...this is an Allparts maple neck so I would think it should be ok.

So...so far, not overly convinced, I'll get round to trying it on the fretboard of the Epi at some point, and if it makes it a touch darker, that will be ok, on the assumption that I'll have to redo it over time perhaps.

Anyone else tried it successfully? 

Sassafras

This stuff seems very effective:

merlin

JerkMoans said:

Cripes: came here looking for endorsements of the Monty's product, stayed for a load of kinky shit involving leather goods.  

You love it. 

guitarjack66

Chelsea Dubbin for football boots et al would do the job,just add a few coffee grains.

markslade07

In case anyone was in the slightest bit interested...

Sanded back to bare wood:

After (I think) 7 coats:

stonevibe

Surely dirt from just playing it would have darkened it more?

markslade07

I think so...not quite sure why it didn't do much...though upon applying, it doesn't really feel like it's soaking into the grain, just sits on top so maybe it's too waxy or something?

rlw

Presumably no bears were harmed during this process?

markslade07

What'chu talkin' 'bout, Willis?

mbe

I read the whole thread and judging by the return on investment (time + money + patience = aging+ darkening) I conclude that it's very expensive 'snake oil'.

JerkMoans

So the Monty's product promises much but delivers little, it seems. 

Did we ever get to a definitive product that actually does work for darkening paler fretboards, without leaving boot polish all over your hands?  @WezV 's suggestion of Feibings leather oil dye seems most interesting to me, but all suggestions gratefully received as I ponder going at the board on my currently in bits Electric XII.

JerkMoans

merlin said:

JerkMoans said:

Cripes: came here looking for endorsements of the Monty's product, stayed for a load of kinky shit involving leather goods.  

You love it. 

Ah man.  Can't stop myself.  Have already acquired a wallet.  And a key fob.

WezV

JerkMoans said:

So the Monty's product promises much but delivers little, it seems. 

Did we ever get to a definitive product that actually does work for darkening paler fretboards, without leaving boot polish all over your hands?  @WezV 's suggestion of Feibings leather oil dye seems most interesting to me, but all suggestions gratefully received as I ponder going at the board on my currently in bits Electric XII.

the fiebings will need a bit of extra work after other treatments.  You will need to thoroughly rub down to naptha first to get as close to raw wood as possible. 


the problem with all these things is that a lot of it will come down to some nuance of application that's hard to capture in  instructions.   I have described and recommended techniques and materials before, only to have it totally fail for someone else.   Then look at wudtone, which  worked reasonably well for some people, but  as someone experienced with many types of finish I couldn't get to work at all.   sadly my feedback was ignored, when it might have actually helped prevent further issues for others.

I think its a bit harsh to describe this as snake oil, but Monty may need to consider why it works for some and not others, then update his guidance appropriately.  I suggest letting them know you have had issues as they may be willing to provide more guidance, or even update the product if needed

markslade07

WezV said:

JerkMoans said:

So the Monty's product promises much but delivers little, it seems. 

Did we ever get to a definitive product that actually does work for darkening paler fretboards, without leaving boot polish all over your hands?  @WezV 's suggestion of Feibings leather oil dye seems most interesting to me, but all suggestions gratefully received as I ponder going at the board on my currently in bits Electric XII.

I think its a bit harsh to describe this as snake oil, but Monty may need to consider why it works for some and not others, then update his guidance appropriately.  I suggest letting them know you have had issues as they may be willing to provide more guidance, or even update the product if needed

Yep, I would agree with this. It hasn't worked great for me so far, which is why I've not said that it's snake oil, and it may be just that way I've applied it...though I have followed the instructions as far as I can tell. I may well drop Monty's an email and see what they say, and I think the more constructive feedback they get, the better. As you say, they may have further advice or may need to look into the product. Certainly the videos they've shot make it look like it does a very good job, particularly on fretboards, so it may well be that I've done something not quite right.