Recording vocals and keyboard simultaneously - thump of keys through mic. Losing my mind

thecolourbox

Cheers chaps.

Re the blanket, I did think of trying something like that but as I'm rehearsing in my spare room and probably won't be streaming from there, it might be a bit futile although I'd at least know if it worked in principle. I can't leave my keyboard and stand and cables etc in the living room until the day unfortunately as that's the only room we have free at the moment due to working from home.

Re the mic placement, cheers Drew for the detail. The mic is a TC Helicon Mp-75. I think the problem is that there's only so many places I could put the mic and still be able to sing into it whilst playing. I've no idea what the dust cap is, so I've not deliberately messed with it but knowing my luck it probably is faulty or something. 

The mic pattern is supposedly super cardioid which seems to have a bit at the back as well, not sure why that would ever be a helpful thing but I'm fairly stupid about these things so I'm likely wrong.

I might try and lower the keyboard down but again there's only so far I can do that and still be able to reach it (without looking like I'm playing something at knee level)

thecolourbox

Just lifted it up around all possible positions where I could reach and it's doing it all the time, regardless of whether the keyboard is behind it or below it or whatever. 

Hopefully I get laryngitis so I can pull out of doing this

John_A

thecolourbox said:

I'll try it though I'm pretty sure it's done it every time even back to when I did this one ages ago:

Listen to You Know My Name (Chris Cornell tribute) by thecolourbox on #SoundCloud

https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/dNtD

Didn't know whether something where the mic grill points only forward rather than being a big round ball would be better.

I think a new mic & shock mount may help, if you have loads of cash a Shure SM7B would be my first choice, but something like this should work

https://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/SubZero-DB30-Dynamic-Podcast-Studio-Microphone/3EMZ

I would say that the noise certainly isn't enough to spoil the performance, that was really nice!

Before spending money though, if you have the gain cranked on the mic and you are singing away from it that won't help, if that's the case turn the mic down and get right on top of it

thecolourbox

Thanks. I think My dad has a Shire PG58 for his church PA which is obviously sat doing nothing at the moment, and that is cardioid rather than supercardioid so I'm going to ask to borrow that in the meantime I think, to see if it works in principle.

The noise on that recording i shared above isn't as bad as it currently is, plus the "bad" noises seem to get emphasized even more so on the Zoom streaming when I tried that last night.

I am genuinely considering pre-recording my piano and miming to it whilst singing haha without actually pressing the keys! Going to mess about with camera angles to see if it can be done.

John_A said:

Before spending money though, if you have the gain cranked on the mic and you are singing away from it that won't help, if that's the case turn the mic down and get right on top of it

I am pretty close into it already, but the gain needs to be up otherwise I'm too quiet. I'm a very quiet singer. I've tried turning the Voicelive gain down and the Interface gain up, and vice versa, but still causes the same. I even tried the mic straight into the interface and it sounded terrible and still had the same problem with the keys if I recall correctly.

I did think about trying it with a mixer, but the mixers I have don't have XLR output, and i'm not sure if the instrument input of my Fast Track would handle the output of the mixer via jack cable. Only one way to find out I suppose

thecolourbox

Ok this is getting weird. I managed to get the Voicelive input working via Audacity to check the levels. There's quite a lot of hiss, but you know what, sod it, I can't do anything about that.

But what is really weird, I was fiddling with the little gain slider thing on the side of the Voicelive unit, and I could hear the noise of my fingers hitting the unit through the headphones. I've unplugged the mic input completely (in case it was the mic or cable) and it still picks up noise through the case of the Voicelive.

How the hell is this possible? If i tap the outside of the unit with my nails I can hear it in the headphones. How does that work?

John_A

thecolourbox said:

Ok this is getting weird. I managed to get the Voicelive input working via Audacity to check the levels. There's quite a lot of hiss, but you know what, sod it, I can't do anything about that.

But what is really weird, I was fiddling with the little gain slider thing on the side of the Voicelive unit, and I could hear the noise of my fingers hitting the unit through the headphones. I've unplugged the mic input completely (in case it was the mic or cable) and it still picks up noise through the case of the Voicelive.

How the hell is this possible? If i tap the outside of the unit with my nails I can hear it in the headphones. How does that work?

Sounds screwed to me!  Try standing it on a cushion or something as a possible short-term fix

thecolourbox

I'll give that a go. Frustrating if it's fucked already as I only got it a few years ago, it was my thank you present for playing piano for my sister's wedding. Really don't want to have to buy something else new

Edit, no just as bad on a pile of jumpers

EDIT #2 - I'm an effing numbskull. It's something called "Room sense" which is what is used to help pickup what key you're playing in for harmonies and pitch stuff etc. Found eventually a way to turn it down to zero and that problem has gone.

Seriously I don't know how I get dressed by myself in a morning sometimes, thick as pig proverbial

John_A

Result!!  

PolarityMan

Without reading through this my guess is that you are singing way to quiet and therefore have to have the gain jacked up on the mic pre.

Put the keyboard as much as possible in the reject zone fo the mic then get your mouth almost touching the dyanmic and sing a bit louder and you should be fine. 

John_A

PolarityMan said:

Without reading through this my guess is that you are singing way to quiet and therefore have to have the gain jacked up on the mic pre.

Put the keyboard as much as possible in the reject zone fo the mic then get your mouth almost touching the dyanmic and sing a bit louder and you should be fine. 

Nope - see last post - it's a little built in mic in the TC voicelive that senses the pitch that was active

thecolourbox

John_A said:

PolarityMan said:

Without reading through this my guess is that you are singing way to quiet and therefore have to have the gain jacked up on the mic pre.

Put the keyboard as much as possible in the reject zone fo the mic then get your mouth almost touching the dyanmic and sing a bit louder and you should be fine. 

Nope - see last post - it's a little built in mic in the TC voicelive that senses the pitch that was active

Oh no the keyboard key clattering is still a problem, all the In-Built Mics were adding was some percussive clicking from touching the unit itself. The key clatter is still an issue. I've had to put the mic really far forwards so I'm about a foot away from the keyboard which is leading to an interesting playing position, but there you go. No other way around it that I can see, just have to play with the camera angle a bit maybe

I can't sing much louder as my throat dies very quickly as it is, let alone if I sing louder. I've a pretty quiet voice. 

It's still very quiet going into the computer but I think I have no choice but to have the gain as it is with the clunking, seems there's nothing I can do.

It has at least taught me that performing on keys and vocals is not an option going forwards

fretmeister

Is your mic stand touching the keyboard?

thecolourbox

fretmeister said:

Is your mic stand touching the keyboard?

No it's not, it also does the same when I remove the mic from the stand and hold it

John_A

I'd buy something like a Rode procaster from Amazon, give it a try and if it doesn't solve it send it back

Either that or just live with it, the Chris Cornell tribute you liked to above, sounds great, I wouldn't worry too much

thecolourbox

Audio example now included.

Also very annoying high pitched interference type noise going on as well

Waste of time this is

thecolourbox

I've wasted further time by setting it all up in the living room instead in case softer furnishings might help but no luck. Everybody I have asked cannot explain why it would be like this, I'm losing my mind so I've emailed the woman organising it to say I'm going to have to do something else instead of pissing about with this.

Funkfingers

Ascertain the frequency range of the key clunk. Use EQ to tune into the appropriate band and notch them out. Better mixing consoles have a button dedicated to this “rumble filter” function. Some dynamic microphones have it built in.

If the piano and vocal microphone signals will be passing through DAW software, there should be some means of fixing the levels and minimising the key noise.