The best Christian metal/rock album of the decade?

english_bob

Grumpyrocker said:

It's ironic that those of faith are called closed minded when one reads people instantly dismissing some music just because of the personal faith of those that created it. 

Most bands these days want to distance themselves from being "Christian <genre>", even when all the members are Christians and the lyrical themes are to do with their faith.

I think even among Christians, "Christian rock" gets a bad rep, and I think it's because it suggests that artistic integrity is subsumed under conformity to the expectations of a certain audience- to whit, a subset of American Christianity. Back when I took an interest in it in the 90s, all the interesting bands were in conflict with their record companies for just that reason.

Philly_Q

english_bob said:

Philly_Q said:

I've got a Stryper album somewhere, and one or two by Whitecross - Rex Carroll is a bit of a guitar hero.

That dude could play a bit.

I've got a few Christian rock and metal cassettes somewhere from my misspent youth, but a lot of it isn't worth dragging back out. Sturgeon's Law applies of course, as it does to everything.

I do still have a soft spot for a Christian alternative/grunge band from the 90s called The Prayer Chain though. They were actually pretty good, and quite original sounding, which wasn't something you could say for an awful lot of Christian artists.

Anyone who likes tasty guitar could do worse than to check out Phil Keaggy- he's like the Jimi Hendrix of Jesus music.

I'm trying to remember how I heard of Phil Keaggy - I think Ty Tabor, who's sort of on the fringes of Christian rock music, may have mentioned him in interviews.

xscaramanga

Grumpyrocker said:

S56035 said:

A "Christian metal" album is about as pointless as a gangsta-rap album from an Eton crew!

Not really. Given how much influence church iconography, music, and doctrine (even if many bands oppose the doctrine) is in heavy metal then it's one of the most obvious genres to include it.

You only have to listen to gothic, black, or symphonic metal to hear the massive impact Christianity has in terms of themes and music itself. And yes for bands like Cradle of Filth what you're hearing is the opposition to Christianity - but they are still using the trappings - musical styles, iconography etc. 

And while I'm not particularly into specifically Christian music myself, there's no reason why the poetry and mythology of any faith doesn't make a good basis for music. It's everywhere in music. Heck most of western musical history over the last 2000 years is related to the Christian faith. And metal draws on these classical themes more than pop or many other genres. 

You don't have to go far into the lyrics of bands such as Dream Theatre or even Megadeth to find Christian-positive themes.

It's ironic that those of faith are called closed minded when one reads people instantly dismissing some music just because of the personal faith of those that created it. 

I grew up an evangelical Christian, only listened to Christian rock until I was 15. What your saying sounds right, and certainly there's no reason Christians can't make good music.

But when we talk about "Christian rock" or "Christian metal", we aren't just talking about Christians who make music. We are talking about extremists. If you've seen the footage of Paula White or Kenneth Copeland with Donald Trump, you know what I'm talking about. The Christian rock brigade have far more in common with the televangelists and faith healers than they do with the tradition of church art and iconography you're talking about. In fact most of them are the kinds of Christian who wouldn't even count Catholics and adherents of some other denominations as Christians at all.

@Philly_Q is right, Rex Carroll was a great shredder, but these are people who would vote for a dictator if he promised to ban abortion. And there's no separating the art from the artist, because the whole point of Christian metal is to hit you over the head with their toxic ideology. 

EDIT: With regard to OP, I can't comment on whether Wytch Hazel are THAT kind of Christian because I haven't paid enough attention. I'm not saying all Christians in metal bands are extremists, but I am saying that's fundamentally what the genre "Christian metal" exists to promote. 

bingefeller

I dunno, hard to beat the goth metal masterpiece that is Saviour Machine's 1993 album.   

Philly_Q

jonnyscaramanga said:

I grew up an evangelical Christian, only listened to Christian rock until I was 15. What your saying sounds right, and certainly there's no reason Christians can't make good music.

But when we talk about "Christian rock" or "Christian metal", we aren't just talking about Christians who make music. We are talking about extremists. If you've seen the footage of Paula White or Kenneth Copeland with Donald Trump, you know what I'm talking about. The Christian rock brigade have far more in common with the televangelists and faith healers than they do with the tradition of church art and iconography you're talking about. In fact most of them are the kinds of Christian who wouldn't even count Catholics and adherents of some other denominations as Christians at all.

@Philly_Q is right, Rex Carroll was a great shredder, but these are people who would vote for a dictator if he promised to ban abortion. And there's no separating the art from the artist, because the whole point of Christian metal is to hit you over the head with their toxic ideology. 

EDIT: With regard to OP, I can't comment on whether Wytch Hazel are THAT kind of Christian because I haven't paid enough attention. I'm not saying all Christians in metal bands are extremists, but I am saying that's fundamentally what the genre "Christian metal" exists to promote. 

You make some interesting points there.  I had a fairly religious background - most of my family were regular churchgoers and I went to a school which was attached to the Bible College of Wales and had missionaries' kids as boarders.  I'm not sure I'd have ever described myself as a Christian but I have an affection for some aspects of that upbringing, and for the Bible as an interesting book, if nothing else.

So, I don't automatically reject the idea of Christian rock/metal, as some might.  But I haven't looked too closely into their specific beliefs.  I'd hope that musicians I like - Trouble, King's X, Kerry Livgren, even Dave Ellefson and the aforementioned Rex Carroll - aren't the kind of Christians who are homophobic or anti-abortion.  But I don't know.

horse

I saw whitecross live once - got a signed copy of their first lp somewhere! As I recall it included a pretty much straight tribute to eruption for some reason

Philly_Q

horse said:

I saw whitecross live once - got a signed copy of their first lp somewhere! As I recall it included a pretty much straight tribute to eruption for some reason

Yeah, there's an instrumental called Nagasake.  It's a bit more neoclassical than Eruption but in a similar vein.

Before Whitecross he was in a (non-Christian) band called Fierce Heart who had one really great album.  The singer/bassist, Larry Elkins was fantastic but he never seems to have done much else.  That also had an instrumental, called Echoes.

smigeon

Someone I know was in a "Christian Rock" band called Nuns and Moses!

english_bob

Philly_Q said:

  I'd hope that musicians I like - Trouble, King's X, Kerry Livgren, even Dave Ellefson and the aforementioned Rex Carroll - aren't the kind of Christians who are homophobic or anti-abortion.  But I don't know.

I know that King's X deliberately distanced themselves from the "Christian rock" tag, and as far as I know Dug Pinnick doesn't consider himself a Christian any more. He came out in 1998 so I doubt he's homophobic.

Philly_Q

english_bob said:

Philly_Q said:

  I'd hope that musicians I like - Trouble, King's X, Kerry Livgren, even Dave Ellefson and the aforementioned Rex Carroll - aren't the kind of Christians who are homophobic or anti-abortion.  But I don't know.

I know that King's X deliberately distanced themselves from the "Christian rock" tag, and as far as I know Dug Pinnick doesn't consider himself a Christian any more. He came out in 1998 so I doubt he's homophobic.

Yeah, I know, but I didn't want to make my post any more convoluted than it already was!    I think Ty Tabor may still identify as Christian and I'd like to think if he is, he's one of the "good" ones.

axisus

horse said:

 As I recall it included a pretty much straight tribute to eruption for some reason

The gay tribute to Eruption never went down well

english_bob

jonnyscaramanga said:

I grew up an evangelical Christian, only listened to Christian rock until I was 15. What your saying sounds right, and certainly there's no reason Christians can't make good music.

But when we talk about "Christian rock" or "Christian metal", we aren't just talking about Christians who make music. We are talking about extremists. If you've seen the footage of Paula White or Kenneth Copeland with Donald Trump, you know what I'm talking about. The Christian rock brigade have far more in common with the televangelists and faith healers than they do with the tradition of church art and iconography you're talking about. In fact most of them are the kinds of Christian who wouldn't even count Catholics and adherents of some other denominations as Christians at all.

Philly_Q is right, Rex Carroll was a great shredder, but these are people who would vote for a dictator if he promised to ban abortion. And there's no separating the art from the artist, because the whole point of Christian metal is to hit you over the head with their toxic ideology. 

EDIT: With regard to OP, I can't comment on whether Wytch Hazel are THAT kind of Christian because I haven't paid enough attention. I'm not saying all Christians in metal bands are extremists, but I am saying that's fundamentally what the genre "Christian metal" exists to promote. 

I think it's probably slightly more complex than that. I think the reason there was ever a "Christian music" market at all (for pop and rock music I mean, not for music to sing communally in church services) was the Evangelical church in the US, and the stuff it preached about being separate from secular culture. You get a whole parallel system of music production and distribution, selling products from Christian record labels through Christian bookshops to a Christian audience made up mostly of people who believe in a very conservative, very proscriptive version of Christianity with its own set of in-group signifiers that need to be there in the music to prove the artist is "one of us". Less conservative strands of Christianity don't have the same strong feeling about shunning everything secular, so they're less likely to be very interested in Christian music, so they don't need to be catered for.

You end up with the situation that existed in the 90s, where bands whose members are Christians, and whose lyrical themes are Christian want to be professional musicians. Mainstream labels won't touch them because they're a bit *too* Christian, but the Christian labels need them to tick all the right boxes in order to appeal to their conservative Evangelical market. This might mean going full-out with songs about how Catholics aren't Christians or everyone's going to hell if they don't stop having any fun, or it might just mean *not* saying certain things, not writing songs that don't directly address some aspect of faith, or not taking a position on an issue that goes counter to the accepted line. And they don't fuck about either-  I've known of Christian artists who were cancelled before it was even a thing, simply for having a swear word on an album, or an extramarital affair, or coming out. All the albums come off the shelves of the Christian stores, the gigs get cancelled and it's game over. There might be a way back from marital infidelity for an artist, but once you're out as gay you're dead to them.

So it's not necessarily the artists who are pushing the agenda (although I'm sure plenty of them do), it's the audience.

Grumpyrocker

It must have been really stifling for many musicians. You want to explore all manner of themes in your life - some due to your faith - but unless you towed this particularly line you couldn't have a sure career within that Christian Music scene in America.

Ironically I feel that it prevented many Christian musicians fulfilling the best use of their gifts that they believed they had received. 

I remember discussing this in Christian circles back at uni (I used to regularly play in a Christian Union band) and I often said that I felt Christian music was too much of a ghetto, too limiting. And while I understood musicians working within it for a steady living, ultimately it stifled creative expression. And for me back in my Christian days that the songs I found most realistic and moving about such life experiences tended to come from the secular music industry. 

english_bob

Grumpyrocker said:

It must have been really stifling for many musicians. You want to explore all manner of themes in your life - some due to your faith - but unless you towed this particularly line you couldn't have a sure career within that Christian Music scene in America.

Ironically I feel that it prevented many Christian musicians fulfilling the best use of their gifts that they believed they had received. 

I remember discussing this in Christian circles back at uni (I used to regularly play in a Christian Union band) and I often said that I felt Christian music was too much of a ghetto, too limiting. And while I understood musicians working within it for a steady living, ultimately it stifled creative expression. And for me back in my Christian days that the songs I found most realistic and moving about such life experiences tended to come from the secular music industry. 

To be fair, I'm sure there are artists who have found the secular music industry every bit as stifling and prescriptive.

I found an interesting article about The Prayer Chain's Mercury, which is a definite candidate for "best album you've never heard of" that goes in to some of the detail around how the Christian music industry dealt with boundary-pushing bands.

https://medium.com/chrindie-95/the-prayer-chain-s-mercury-969ce84e07e9

Grumpyrocker

english_bob said:

To be fair, I'm sure there are artists who have found the secular music industry every bit as stifling and prescriptive.

Oh sure. And I'm sure many Christian artists were glad they found an industry where they could make a regular living.

Thanks for the link I'll take a look. 

Edit: I should add it's worth me admitting that I was a complete hypocrite during my CU era in the 90s. I hated all the CCM I was exposed to and didn't like any of the stuff the worship band had me play on. But I was just happy to be playing live. . 

jaymenon

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earwighoney

Reverend said:

https://wytchhazel.bandcamp.com/album/iii-pentecost?fbclid=IwAR1tFKlcGkfu3qow1-7hTcG-3dSfJePYMtUwO3YLlZ3t9ZvVpCRcrE8eW_E

For fans of Lizzy/Wishbone Ash/Ashbury/Winterhawk/Angel Witch and heavy rock/NWOBHM in general. 

I have no idea whether is the best Christian Metal/Rock album of the decade, as I do not know any others but the guitar playing on the album is superb, really well produced as well.

I enjoyed listening to it, thanks for posting it.

jaymenon

Reverend said:

https://wytchhazel.bandcamp.com/album/iii-pentecost?fbclid=IwAR1tFKlcGkfu3qow1-7hTcG-3dSfJePYMtUwO3YLlZ3t9ZvVpCRcrE8eW_E

For fans of Lizzy/Wishbone Ash/Ashbury/Winterhawk/Angel Witch and heavy rock/NWOBHM in general. 

That is indeed really good...!

fretmeister

Televangelist Kenneth Copeland....

Springywheel

merlin said:

The fat guy in the back looks so embarrassed to be there