Very directional mic recommendations (or techniques with them I suppose)

thecolourbox

Stuckfast said:

Maybe I'm deaf but I don't notice any keyboard clunking in that video, and I'm listening on good headphones.

If you are desperate to get rid of it, the best mic would be one with a figure-8 polar pattern. But they can bring issues of their own. Personally I wouldn't worry.

I've not listened to that one on headphones to be honest, only through phone speaker as I suspected that was how people on the Zoom gig would be listening. I've reduced it a lot but it's still there when I play less gently or where there's a piano solo/break, which there was on the two I did on the night

thecolourbox

Not to worry, I should have learnt after the last thread that I'm the problem. Sorry chaps, thanks for the info

LastMantra

thecolourbox said:

LastMantra said:

I just mean if you're reducing the mic gain to give a better balance then you can increase everything a bit. So in relation to the keys the clunking will be quieter. 

I'm a bit thick, forgive me - I don't really understand what you mean here? If I reduce the mic gain it's too quiet. If I increase it on the fx unit or the interface, the clunking returns

In the vid you posted the keys are very quiet compared to the vocals.

Even like that most people don't think it's bad 

thecolourbox

That's because the keyboard volume was too low, not because the vocals were too high. And the song i'm playing I was barely touching the keys. If I were to play anything that required anything more than "pianissimo" then you would hear it

thecolourbox

As it was, it was "ok" but I just wanted something better than ok. If it's only "ok" in a quiet environment and with no other volume to contend with, it will be less than "ok" if there was any volume to contend with in an environment where one might be playing in public for example

Stuckfast

Just a thought, but are you sure the clunking isn't being transmitted mechanically rather than acoustically? For instance if you have the mic stand touching the keyboard, or if both are on a wobbly floor, you can get vibration transmitted through the stand.

thecolourbox

Yeah it's not that as it happens even when holding the mic like 2m away from the keyboard.

Danny1969

Clunking aside I had a quick listen on my laptop, sounds like your vocal is panned left and piano right for some reason ? Also level on piano is way too low

I would put the piano in stereo then vocal bang in the middle with a stereo verb on the vocal.  

thecolourbox

Danny1969 said:

Clunking aside I had a quick listen on my laptop, sounds like your vocal is panned left and piano right for some reason ? Also level on piano is way too low

I would put the piano in stereo then vocal bang in the middle with a stereo verb on the vocal.  

I know they are panned hard left and right, that is what the windows camera app does with my interface. As I said above it was only to test levels before the evening and as such the piano gain on the interface was turned up on the night and was fine

thecolourbox

Not to worry, seems I'd got the wrong end of the stick with what I needed so I'll just get back in my dark cave and stay here

mrkb

thecolourbox said:

Not to worry, seems I'd got the wrong end of the stick with what I needed so I'll just get back in my dark cave and stay here

To be honest, you always seem to give negative responses to all suggestions, so I’m not surprised there hasn’t been more helpful suggestions. I was going to post some suggestions but won’t now.

thecolourbox

mrkb said:

thecolourbox said:

Not to worry, seems I'd got the wrong end of the stick with what I needed so I'll just get back in my dark cave and stay here

To be honest, you always seem to give negative responses to all suggestions, so I’m not surprised there hasn’t been more helpful suggestions. I was going to post some suggestions but won’t now.

Fair enough. It's because I'm flogging a dead 'oss that is why, I do struggle with accepting that things have to be rubbish, and also with being unnecessarily positive about not fixing that, so best to end it all here I think.

Doesn't mean I'm not grateful for attempts at help, I am. So thank you all and good night

Legionreturns

For jobs like this my go to mic is now the Aston Stealth. It is very good at rejecting anything off axis. 

LastMantra

I'd persevere with eq, it won't get rid of the clunks but should definitely help without effecting the vocal too badly. I don't really know about these things but maybe some fancy multiband comp. or something might help too? 
You could try pointing the mic at more of an angle away from the keyboard. Even lift your seat so you're further away. You might need to adjust a bit.
Maybe move away from walls/reflective surfaces. Strategically positioned cushions and rugs etc.

You may also just need to practice projecting your voice more and clunking your keys less 

ESBlonde

In these sort of situations ( I can't hear the recording here) there are several tools at your disposal.
Signal gain, getting that right (not necessarily max gain before distortion) will assist.
Equalisation, you might notch a select frequency with a parametric filter.
Environment, Placing the problematic keyboard on a padded non reflective surface. Try a carpet remnant or some such.
The rule of physical gain. Halve the distance = double the gain, or double the distance = half the gain. In other words have to mic of choice as close to the mouth/sound source as possible and as far as reasonably away from the undesirable sound source. Using a directional mic and pointing the 'dead zone' at the problematic source will also help.

Remember no single step will cure the issue, but a combination of these things (you need to experiment, one thing at a time to optimise), will likely result in huge improvements. Don't always assume technology will dig you out. The hit recordings from the Motown studio of the 60s were made all in one room, brass and all. They didn't even have an isolation booth at first for the singer(s) or drum kit until a couple of years in.

John_A

You have said you sing quietly, do you bang the piano really hard?

Funkfingers

Thread starter is currently on voluntary forum break. Like Lawrence "Titus" Oates, he may be some time. 

Another thread from the same author included an audio demonstration recording of simultaneous vocals and unwanted plastic key and return spring clatter. This was made using a Shure SM58 and with no attempt at baffling to minimise the key noise spill.

I forget whether the OP has access to any posher microphones. A figure-of-eight pick up pattern might help but it would cost rather too much.

For a solo performance, the solution might be to have monitor loudspeakers running in the room positioned as if for a stage performance. Allow all of the audio signals to spill into each other, disguising the keyboard noises.

John_A said:

You have said you sing quietly, do you bang the piano really hard?

Good point. The OP does sing quietly. He probably compensates for this by piling on the input gain and/or compression. Either of these will raise the noise floor. 

RESULT - Frustration. Like so.

thecolourbox said:
I'm flogging a dead 'oss … thank you and good night.