Basic thumb fretting discovery after 30 years of playing

bencowling81

I made a simple but extraordinary discovery today.

Context: From 6 to 12 years old I learnt to play on classical guitar, with the proper classical guitar position, footstool, guitar resting on left leg, fretting hand thumb middle of the back of the neck.  Switched to electric guitar at about 12 years old.

I always found it difficult to do the Hendrix style F-shape chords using the thumb to fret and assumed it was because my hands were too small. Since then I've been able to do it, but not comfortably.

But this morning, big Eureka moment. I was playing standing up but with the strap extra long so the guitar was sitting a bit below balls height. Made the thumb trick dead easy and comfortable, in fact more comfortable than a full bar chord with the finger!!

I'd always assumed that the low slung position was to look cool, but if you wanted to play properly you needed the neck higher, but now think that's wrong if you want to knock out a bit of Hendrix.

Can't believe I only just figured this out. Could be a game-changer.

merlin

Each to their own.

Ergonomically speaking, low slung will be fine in the short term but will mean that you have to continually flex your wrist open if you want to use over the neck fretting with your thumb.
It will also make playing in any other way tricky and potentially damaging over time. Barre chords? Really difficult to do low slung and sometimes needed! 

bencowling81

@merlin yep definitely makes barre chords harder.

Just for the over the neck thumb fretting though, had always assumed I was always going to find it tough physically, but low slung makes it available. Castles made of sand never sounded so good.

Will be keeping the strap shorter for pretty much everything else I play though.

You know how high end mountain bikes have those drop seats at the touch of a button? Hmmm.. guitar strap innovation that'll never get off the ground in the making I reckon!

Neill

Hendrix though actually played with the guitar pretty high slung, but unlike say George Harrison, Jimi still looked cool.

It really is each to his own, look at Johnny Ramone - has that Mosrite as low as anyone, it's practically down by his ankles, but didn't have any trouble playing barre chords all night.

But in early pictures of JR he has the guitar right up under his armpit..!

I remember Tom Verlaine saying that his extreme high position is because when he plays standing he wants the guitar exactly where it is when he's sat down, and that makes some sense.   I think this is why when you see footage of bands from the "Mersey" era they all seem to have the guitar under their chin as when you first learn to play you do it sitting down.    

But it doesn't look cool, Jimi might have got away with it but when you watch Jeff Beck he just doesn't have the same visual flash.

Billy Gibbons is another that has the guitar very low, in his case it's a matter of feel, he says he feels the guitar sound comes from his gut, that's why he plays that way.

The one that really baffles me is that Freddie King "shoulder bag" style, Glen Matlock plays his bass the same way and I actually find it uncomfortable to watch. I'm subconsciously waiting for the strap to slip off his shoulder. 

MrTee

Having the guitar at 'ball height', as you put it, may prove troublesome the older you get!

Neill

Sorry about this, but that reminded me of a genuine exchange many years ago on some radio phone in quiz...

DJ - "Who had a recent hit with a version of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight"

Contestant - "Oh, errrr, ummm, can you give us a clue"

DJ - "Well, think of your husband's underpants" (the correct answer was "Tight Fit")

Contestant - "Ah, was it the Dooleys?"

bencowling81

MrTee said:

Having the guitar at 'ball height', as you put it, may prove troublesome the older you get!

Hopefully the stoop will develop at the same pace

TheBigDipper

Different hand positions and picking styles seem to have an impact on how the music sounds when you play it.

I also started as a young kid playing classical guitar and still use the classical left hand position for most things - including electric. But if you want to play a barre chord and have a walking bass on the bottom string, you have to change to the "thumb over" position or it doesn't get played properly. Most of the time I don't play barre chords on an electric, though - the music often gets too cluttered in a band if you do. 

Same with the right hand. Most of the time, with a plectrum or with fingers, my hand floats over the guitar and I don't anchor it unless I'm looking to mute a string or two. Playing acoustic with my fingers, I'll mainly use the classical right hand. But some music is hard to get right if you don't flatten that hand and change the angle so you strike low strings with the side of your thumbnail rather than the tip of the nail. The sort of picking pattern that could be played with a thumb-pick. 

I can play "Blackbird" (the Beatles one) using the classical right hand and striking the open G string with a finger, but it doesn't have the rhythmic bounce I get if I use the alternating thumb between bottom E and open G. 

So I try to let the music I want to play dictate the technique I use. But it's not a straightjacket.  

bencowling81

TheBigDipper said:

So I try to let the music I want to play dictate the technique I use. But it's not a straightjacket.  

Totally agree with this, and have always worked to this principle. Also agree thee is little call for a full barre chord in most of the electric stuff I play. What surprised me recently is how much altering the neck positioning and angle can facilitate different techniques.

I guess the ultimate aim for extended practice is limiting stress on joints and so must be best to have a straight line from the back of the hand to the forearm (no cocked wrist). If the guitar neck is high then the thumb is closest to your face (and not the fretboard) so makes barring easier but thumb access to the board needs a big backwards bend in the wrist. If the neck is low, the arm is straighter and the thumb naturally comes around the top of the neck.

This seems very basic but as I mentioned 30 years of formal lessons and informal magizine articles, youtube videos etc and never came across this point before.

Roland

bencowling81 said:

TheBigDipper said:

So I try to let the music I want to play dictate the technique I use. But it's not a straightjacket.  

Totally agree with this, and have always worked to this principle. Also agree thee is little call for a full barre chord in most of the electric stuff I play. What surprised me recently is how much altering the neck positioning and angle can facilitate different techniques ...

Sometimes I’ll reposition the guitar strap on my shoulder between songs to change the neck angle. One of my guitars has two strap buttons so that I can shorten the strap, and lift the whole guitar, to play Message In A Bottle.

Cranky

Phil X is another guy I've noticed plays a low-slung guitar. 

For me it's painful, I struggle with wrist and finger flexibility and have just average size hands, so wrapping my hand around a neck that's anywhere near my waist is impossible and my playing gets really sloppy.  I discovered this not because of the Hendrix thumb trick but because my picking speed is faster and more relaxed with a lowered body.  So I have to settle on a compromise between accurate fretting and reduced (but improving) picking speed.  The thumb just has to take what it can get, but it's not terribly difficult to alter the elbow or neck temporarily to accommodate.