alder vs ash vs swamp ash strat

als427

Title says it all , I know tone is very much subjective but is there a general opinion on the basic tonal differences. I have a strat with maple neck r/wood fretboard on a cheapo strat body , supposedly alder but could bee any old junk. Its an eden body. Sounds a bit thin , brittle and bright. Going to make a strat body , I could buy either alder / swamp ash or I have some standard non swamp ash I could use in my workshop. Looking for a classic sorta sound , hendrix / sry / rory gallagher all the usual stuff.
Obviouslyly want am improvement on what I have

Roland

Alex. The video and subsequent discussion in this thread are worth a few minutes of your time. https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/199513/body-wood-comparison. Body wood has an impact on the sound, but it’s very small compared with other factors. 

WezV

 you will definitely get more mileage by changing other elements.


 Possibly an over simplification, but think Pickups, strings, electrics, bridge, neck, nut, body.... roughly in that order of importance on a strat.  (Ignoring player, amp and other equipment for the purpose of this discussion)

On the other hand, if you want to make a body anyway i wouldn't discourage it.   you can  always swap these things round  on a strat style guitar 

guitars4you

You need to take into account the fingerboard as well - As an overview most Ash bodied models come with a maple fingerboard, aka 50's style - Custom Shop can offer swamp ash with rosewood boards as required

Ash is now entering short supply due to the 'disease' that is the covid for ash 

RG + SRV Strats are both alder - Jimi had various guitars but I believe most/all were alder - But he had a mix of rosewood and maple fingerboards

As an overview Ash is slightly more crisp with more transparent mids - Alder can tend to be a touch more mellow/warmer with stronger mids - Ash can be heavy, if you get bad examples - But good ash is okay - That is an overview as the density/resonance of each piece of wood will have a voice - As such the finer nuances of each piece of wood can kick any overall views in to touch

Fishboy7

I prefer a nice Ash body. 

I think Ash can be super light or heavy, whereas alder doesn't vary in weight so much.  

Ash also has nicer grain pattern and looks cool with more transparent finishes.  

als427

hinall , swapped out various pickups etc. Its not those. My gt instinct has always been the neck provides most of the tone rather than the body , and it is the other common factor in that guitar.The video highlights the difference the body perhaps doesnt make. Cheaper to swap out a body than a neck. I will check the bridge but I think its  decent strat bridge.

stonevibe

I think it all boils down to the grain, as ash tends too look nicer. They have similar weights and so there isn't much in it really, specially if you re going to paint it a solid colour like Olympic White.

Owning all three, I can't say it makes any real difference in tone to be honest.

ThePrettyDamned

I've tried ash vs alder and tbh there isn't much in it. Likewise fingerboards - I'm not going to say it's irrelevant, but these are subtle compared to the pickups, strings, the pick you use, the way you pick etc. Turn the amp eq and you'll make a big change. Increase amp volume and you'll change more. 

Get one that looks nice, feels nice and you're mostly there. 

SteveRobinson

als427 said:

Its an eden body.

That'll be an old one then?

Logging the Amazon is one thing but that's a whole different level!

WezV

als427 said:

hinall , swapped out various pickups etc. Its not those. My gt instinct has always been the neck provides most of the tone rather than the body , and it is the other common factor in that guitar.The video highlights the difference the body perhaps doesnt make. Cheaper to swap out a body than a neck. I will check the bridge but I think its  decent strat bridge.

It's definitely worth looking at the bridge.  A block change can sometimes be enough.

I don't think i would ever recommend swapping a body as an effective way to tackle a thin sounding strat.  I certainly wouldn't bother for an average piece of Ash, if you got an extremely light bit it might be enough to add a little warmth... most swamp ash is average  weight these days

Although you never know, it might just go back together better when you make a new body.  Parts fitting together better can change as much as the species of wood

mark123

Sassafras

Contrary to popular opinion a swamp ash body can weigh a ton.

WezV

mark123 said:

It's a good video, but where he says no difference Ihe shows us small but consistent differences.  The full body consistently sustains longer.

He concludes shape makes no difference  but the test isn't enough to say that.    Once you look at Gibsons you have a number of guitar designs which are near identical except for the body shape.  This cannot be ignored.  You cannot conclude a flying V sounds the same as an SG by cutting lumps of a strat.... that's just bad science 

My feeling is strats are the worst design to use for tests like this.   My belief is the fulcrum trem reduces any impact the body material might have

als427

nuts!! they only make a different on an open string presumably? it has a tusk nut.

crunchman

guitars4you said:

You need to take into account the fingerboard as well - As an overview most Ash bodied models come with a maple fingerboard, aka 50's style - Custom Shop can offer swamp ash with rosewood boards as required

Ash is now entering short supply due to the 'disease' that is the covid for ash 

RG + SRV Strats are both alder - Jimi had various guitars but I believe most/all were alder - But he had a mix of rosewood and maple fingerboards

As an overview Ash is slightly more crisp with more transparent mids - Alder can tend to be a touch more mellow/warmer with stronger mids - Ash can be heavy, if you get bad examples - But good ash is okay - That is an overview as the density/resonance of each piece of wood will have a voice - As such the finer nuances of each piece of wood can kick any overall views in to touch

It's not just a maple board on the "50's style" Fender.  It's a different neck construction.

The earlier 50's guitars were one piece necks with the truss rod inserted from the back, with the skunk stripe.  With a rosewood board, the truss rod channel is routed from the front, with board glued on afterwards.

There is a difference between a maple board and a rosewood board, but it's not the only difference on those guitars.

You can hear that fingerboard wood does make a difference when you hear an ebony board vs rosewood board when they are constructed in the same style.  I do wonder if part of the sound of those "50's style" Fenders is the one piece neck construction.  They seem to have the snap of a maple board, but still sound full and meaty.

You can also get guitars with glued on maple boards, which is another variable.

Pabcrane

Do you have a preference for the weight of the guitar? I found the biggest difference between the woods was weight - with alder being pretty consistently lighter.

Also, I can only assume that it's better to create less demand for and thereby harvest less ash while the stocks are suffering from disease problems.

BlueStrat

Ash can vary hugely in weight, incl swamp ash.

My Anderson Classic S is a swamp ash and so light you wonder if something is missing.

But then have played ash strats that weighed a ton.

Some interesting facts from a source who must know what they're on about since they supply the stuff 

https://commercialforestproducts.com/good-swamp-ash/

WezV

BlueStrat said:

Ash can vary hugely in weight, incl swamp ash.

My Anderson Classic S is a swamp ash and so light you wonder if something is missing.

But then have played ash strats that weighed a ton.

Some interesting facts from a source who must know what they're on about since they supply the stuff 

https://commercialforestproducts.com/good-swamp-ash/

I remember going wood shopping with a mate and I threw him a blank that was as light as a sponge, just to see him flinch.   It also had the dullest tap tone of any body blank I have ever held... but i have to admit it did make a nice sounding guitar.

ThePrettyDamned

WezV said:

BlueStrat said:

Ash can vary hugely in weight, incl swamp ash.

My Anderson Classic S is a swamp ash and so light you wonder if something is missing.

But then have played ash strats that weighed a ton.

Some interesting facts from a source who must know what they're on about since they supply the stuff 

https://commercialforestproducts.com/good-swamp-ash/

I remember going wood shopping with a mate and I threw him a blank that was as light as a sponge, just to see him flinch.   It also had the dullest tap tone of any body blank I have ever held... but i have to admit it did make a nice sounding guitar.

Part art, part science to building instruments... 

richardhomer

I used to own an American Vintage 59 reissue with a rosewood board and an alder body. I found it ‘thin’ to the point of harshness. I tried a couple of things - Raw Vintage springs and a plate on the bridge pick-up. Both mods improved things - but not to the point where I was really happy with the guitar.

I found a used CS 56 Relic at local dealer and A/Bd them.

The 56 had substantially more low-end and warmth - yet has an Ash body and a maple neck. There are constructional differences (the neck is one piece and significantly thicker than the 59, for example).

I think the conclusion I’ve drawn is that you have to evaluate each instrument as a whole. Trying to second-guess what impact particular woods might have on tone does not always turn out how you think it might.

ICBM

richardhomer said:

I think the conclusion I’ve drawn is that you have to evaluate each instrument as a whole. Trying to second-guess what impact particular woods might have on tone does not always turn out how you think it might.

My experience is that different types and weights of wood do have an inherent tone, to a degree - but you only really know if you compare a lot of guitars with the same ones. By far the more important factor is how the neck - which is the more important  of the two - and the body resonate together.

I don't find it at all unlikely that a particular ash body with an all-maple neck sounded fuller and warmer than a particular alder body with a rosewood-board neck - even though if you took a dozen of each and picked pairs at random, I would expect the opposite to be true more often.