ES355 pick up change

DannyP

I made myself a couple of guitars from kits in recent years: an ES355 type which I love and an LP type that I haven't bonded with.

ES355 has an Iron Gear Blues Engine set. LP has an Oil City Forces Sweetheart set.

The Neck PU in the ES 355 sounds pretty good, but the bridge is thin and weedy. Pick up height makes little difference. Maybe I should have done what everybody else seems to do and put Blues Engine in the neck and Dirty Torque in the bridge....

Logic seems to dictate I put the pricier pick ups in the guitar I physically prefer - ie. stick the Oil Cities in the ES355.

However, on paper the 2 sets are simillar:

Blues Engines:
AlNiCo IV
Bridge = 8.6kOhm
Neck = 7.4kOhm

Forces Sweethearts:
AlNiCo IV
Bridge = 8.4kOhm
Neck = 7.5kOhm

Is it worth going to the considerable faff of swapping such similar spec pickups?

Or buy a Dirty Torque or similar for the ES355?

My style is Johnny Marr, Keef, Bernard Butler, Will Sergeant, Nick McCabe. Coxon, Harrison, Weller.

Any thoughts or suggestions gratefully accepted! xx

Rowby1

Pickup changing is a bit of a lottery to be honest. What suits one guitar won’t work so well in another in my experience. I’ve been very fortunate (and actually well advised by Ash @OilCityPickups) and my recent pickup changes have worked out well. 

I posted a thread on Saturday about my Eastman T386 which I’ve had a very pleasing pickup change on. There’s a video in the thread if it’s any help.

I’d certainly recommend you have a chat to Ash though.

Funkfingers

In your position, I would simply beef up the bridge position Blues Engine humbucker with a bar magnet swap from A4 to either un-oriented A5 or A8.*

If you increase the DC Resistance much beyond 11k, you lose most of the ES-3n5-ness.


* If your BE pickup has a metal cover, it will be necessary to remove it to access the magnet. One way to increase output and brightness is to leave the cover off.

In most guitars, the pickups can produce a brighter sound via partial coil splittage. On a 345/355, similarly bright tones should be available via the Vari-Tone circuitry.

DannyP

Thanks guys.

I guess I'm wondering whether a better quality vintage-wound Alnico 4 (my Oil City Forces Sweetheart) would sound fuller and stronger than my Iron Gear.

I hadn't thought of swapping the magnet. Has any one done this on a Blues Engine?

OilCityPickups

Funkfingers said:

In your position, I would simply beef up the bridge position Blues Engine humbucker with a bar magnet swap from A4 to either un-oriented A5 or A8.*

If you increase the DC Resistance much beyond 11k, you lose most of the ES-3n5-ness.


* If your BE pickup has a metal cover, it will be necessary to remove it to access the magnet. One way to increase output and brightness is to leave the cover off.

In most guitars, the pickups can produce a brighter sound via partial coil splittage. On a 345/355, similarly bright tones should be available via the Vari-Tone circuitry.

Things to note before magnet swapping:
You have a means of determining magnet polarity: polarity checkers are cheap ... but if you put the new magnet in reverse polarity your two pickups will be out of phase. 
Magnets will not always slide out easily as the magnets are potted into the pickups ... the bottom screws need loosened, then the bobbins, magnet and baseplate need GENTLY levered apart to free the wax and allow the magnet to slide out (generally on the treble side as there are no pigtail wires there. Be careful as you push the magnet from the bass side ... it's easy to break the wiring doing that! 

Winny_Pooh

Yeah I would deffo try UO alnico 5 on the weedy bridge

DannyP

Winny_Pooh said:

Yeah I would deffo try UO alnico 5 on the weedy bridge

UO?

normula1

Just to echo Ash's comments re being careful. Several years ago during a magnet swap I had a screwdriver slip and plunge directly into the side of an upto that point perfectly serviceable if boring Seymour Duncan.   On the upside it gave me a perfect opportunity to get it rewound.

OilCityPickups

normula1 said:

Just to echo Ash's comments re being careful. Several years ago during a magnet swap I had a screwdriver slip and plunge directly into the side of an upto that point perfectly serviceable if boring Seymour Duncan.   On the upside it gave me a perfect opportunity to get it rewound.

80% of my rewinds are caused by owner 'modifications' ... pickups are fairly delicate ... be careful!  

DannyP

OK conclusions this far:

1. I'm not going to re-magnet the Blues Engine. I might stuff it up
2. I think I'm going to try the Forces Sweethearts in the ES355. Even if they're similar on paper, I'm sure they have a bit more love in them. And what else am I supposed to be doing with my time right now?

I've got a free afternoon today, so I might spend it swearing down an F-hole. Watch this space.

DannyP

I got round to starting the procedure today

DannyP

I was struck by the difference in look between the played-in Iron gears and the new looking shiny chrome Oil City pickup covers

DannyP

I decided to try swapping the covers over so I could keep the worn look that's in keeping with the guitar. 

I started trying to melt the solder tag between cover and baseplate on one of the Iron Gears. I used a 100w iron in one hand and a 30w iron in the other in an attempt to melt the solder quickly and leave the wax intact. Despite using two Irons, the solder JUST WILL NOT MELT.

Any tips?

PeteC

I just replaced the baseplates on a couple of PAFs.   What i do to get the covers off is use a good soldering iron at the same time as a sturdy craft knife in between the cover and baseplate.   You can even use a sawing action with the knife first to cut a groove in the solder joint.  

Be careful not to overheat the pickup too much if its wax potted 

usually works fine and the solder residue is useful when you come to reattach the cover 

go careful but work quite quickly once you heat up the joing 

a 100w iron should be more than
enough. 

a temperature controlled iron tends to do better as the metal conducts a lot of heat away from the top on other irons

DannyP

OK removed the covers with much patient fiddling.

BUT I've made a v basic error!

I checked that the pole spacing on the neck pick ups matched and they were fine. Didn't check the bridge pickups and the Iron Gear has wider spacing. So I can't do a straight swap on the pickups.

Plan B: relic the Oil City covers.

OilCityPickups

DannyP said:

OK removed the covers with much patient fiddling.

BUT I've made a v basic error!

I checked that the pole spacing on the neck pick ups matched and they were fine. Didn't check the bridge pickups and the Iron Gear has wider spacing. So I can't do a straight swap on the pickups.

Plan B: relic the Oil City covers.

The covers are nickel plated not chrome on our pickups :-)

DannyP

OilCityPickups said:

DannyP said:

OK removed the covers with much patient fiddling.

BUT I've made a v basic error!

I checked that the pole spacing on the neck pick ups matched and they were fine. Didn't check the bridge pickups and the Iron Gear has wider spacing. So I can't do a straight swap on the pickups.

Plan B: relic the Oil City covers.

The covers are nickel plated not chrome on our pickups :-)

Ah sorry - just so shiny!

Not any more though, I'm afraid. I've been at them with wire wool, sandpaper and acid!

DannyP

I restrung the guitar and tested everything with pots, switch and socket outside the body. All worked fine.

By the time I threaded everything back in, the neck pickup sounds like the tone pot is permanently on 0. Moving the pot does nothing

BintyTwanger77

Sorry to semi-hijack the thread, though it is directly relevant. I'm looking to getting one of the new "Inspired by Gibson" Epiphone ES-335s as my 2nd electric, and I was wondering if a pickup change might be worth it, or whether the stock pickups were good enough already.

Funkfingers

DannyP said:

I restrung the guitar and tested everything with pots, switch and socket outside the body. All worked fine.

By the time I threaded everything back in, the neck pickup sounds like the tone pot is permanently on 0. Moving the pot does nothing

It is possible that the metal braid shielding of the OCP output cables is shorting against a metal part amongst the controls. If, for instance, the braid touches the metal leg of the capacitor for the neck PU tone control, there will be a path to ground and the treble will be bled away.

DannyP

Does it have the Alnico Classic Pros? Interesting discussion of them here:

https://www.epiphonetalk.com/threads/epi-probuckers-v-alnico-classic-pro-humbuckers.4910/